ForumsWEPRLouisiana Petitions To Secede

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CommanderPaladin
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CommanderPaladin
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Not all Americans are enthralled with obama.
According to a news article published online by World News Daily (WND), The residents of Louisiana have started a petition to peacefully secede from the U.S. and form their own government. The petition was started on November 7 of this year, the day after the election.
(Now I'm going to opine a bit.)
While it causes me great pain to see America in the sorry state it's in now, and an act(s) of secession would only intensify the situation, this may be what needs to happen. I love my country and desperately want to see it return to its former glory, but the current regime has taken conditions ranging from fair to poor and exacerbated them to such an extent that the national condition is in a rapidly worsening state of untenability for all involved. The people of Louisiana realize this and are acting accordingly.
I believe that if obama actually cares for this nation like he says he does (which personally I doubt strongly), he would take this new development as a sign that he and the rest of the regime need to reverse their actions and/or resign. If he doesn't, it is likely that this will be the first of many cases of Americans separating themselves from a government that is no longer Of, By, and For The People but rather seeks to enslave them with government dependancy and weakens the nation on the foreign and domestic fronts.

America is dying, people. Something has to be done in short order, or America will be consigned to the ash-heap of history as a great nation that forsook its own ideals and killed itself from within. And I can't stand the thought of that happening.
All of you who believe in God or prayer, please say an extra prayer for the nation tonight.

  • 110 Replies
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
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When things are going your way, everyone else is a sore loser. When things aren't working out, you're a victim and you have to fight the power.

daleks
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daleks
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So pretty much most of the states have letters going. I don't see what good it will do though. The US government will just be like "No." Even if the states do leave the Union then we will be really weak, no military, and will probably be in chaos.

PanzerTank
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PanzerTank
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And pretty much the rest of the world thinks the same thing. So really, yes, butthurt might be a lazy way of putting it, but when that's what most of the so-called free world thinks, does the laziness matter?

Note to everyone: This isn't meant to be seen as being prejudiced or anything of the like, and it isn't meant to reinforce stereotypes, it is just a reason why to support secession.

Now to begin.

Strop I would like a source claiming that most of the world (let's say 80% of all nations) think that all these petitioners (the number of which is above 200,000 now) are "butthurt".

I myself (not being American) would think that a state leaving a country like America and becoming their own nation would be smart. Not particularly because of Obama, but instead because of the problems with America.

- Inconceivably high National Debt.
- Poor health care system.
- Crime.
- Poverty.
- Pollution.
- Education.
- Over spending on the U.S.A. army.
- Ridiculous spending on icecream ($20 billion dollars)

The list can go on and on and on, it could be never ending actually (hyperbole for emphasis) , but alas I think I've made my point. America is on an irreversibly steep decline, so why not allow states who wish to leave, leave? There is no feasible or practical cure for any/most of these issues America is facing, and even if there is a president who over time could fix these issues, he or she would be kicked out of office after eight years, which is not long enough to fix America's problems.

So when a country is in such a decline and people simply want out after waiting a life time for these issues to be fixed, what do people say?

"Haha, what butthurt losers, just because they've lost an election they want to leave? There is definitely no rational explanation for their actions, just being butthurt."


P.S. Here is a quote I found on the internet showing a few of the problems with Obama.

"Look at the string of broken promises. If you like your health care plan, you can keep it. Try telling that to the 20 million people who are projected to lose their health insurance if Obamacare goes through or the 7.4 million seniors who are going to lose it.
Or remember when he said this: I guarantee if you make less than $250,000, your taxes wonât go up. Of the 21 tax increases in Obamacare, 12 of them hit the middle class.

Or remember when he said health insurance premiums will go down $2,500 per family, per year? Theyâve gone up $3,000, and theyâre expected to go up another $2,400.

Or remember when he said, âI promise by the end of my first term Iâll cut the deficit in half in four yearsâ? Weâve had four budgets, four trillion-dollar deficits.

...Weâve got to tackle this debt crisis before it tackles us. The president likes to say he has a plan. He gave a speech. We asked his budget office, âCan we see the plan?â They sent us to the press secretary. He gave us a copy of the speech. We asked the Congressional Budget Office, âTell us what President Obamaâs plan is to prevent a debt crisis.â They said, âItâs a speech, we canât estimate speeches.â

You see, thatâs what we get in this administration â" speeches â" but weâre not getting leadership." -- Paul Ryan"


Lastly here is a comic I found on the internet emphasizing my point as to what is wrong with America.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/files/2012/06/heyamericansyoureidiots.jpg
Moe
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Moe
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I myself (not being American) would think that a state leaving a country like America and becoming their own nation would be smart. Not particularly because of Obama, but instead because of the problems with America.


Those problems(except military spending) exist on a state level too. Leaving the US would not solve any of those, it would probably make most of them worse. In the long run it could prove to be better than trying to fix a country of 300 million people, but in the short run it would most likely make the problems significantly worse.
toprichieboy
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toprichieboy
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Only Texas really has the resources to secede

SSTG
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SSTG
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When things are going your way, everyone else is a sore loser. When things aren't working out, you're a victim and you have to fight the power.

To whom were you replying?
I think that nothing will be solved because the riches (mostly Conservatives) will block any attempt from Obama to tax them. Their companies will fire people just to prove their point because they don't want to lose a penny of their profit.
They'd rather let the country go down the drain instead of participating in rebuilding it. So who's the winner? Nobody.
I hope I'm wrong.
Strop
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Strop
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Strop I would like a source claiming that most of the world (let's say 80% of all nations) think that all these petitioners (the number of which is above 200,000 now) are "butthurt".


You want me to cite a source on what admittedly was an anecdotal statement. I'm going to stop short of giving you a Facebook screencap and calling it evidence, but I will give you the source on what it was extrapolated from: an article on the international Obama vs Romney poll. Of course it doesn't make claims about how good or bad a president and his administration is, and it doesn't give us any insight into the reasons people chose the way they did. It merely states that as far as people cared to state an opinion, they would choose Obama over Romney.

For that criticism Paul Ryan made, I never once heard a policy from a Republican that would feasibly reduce the US debt, either. And no, I'm not convinced that getting rid of so-called Obamacare would be a start.

I myself (not being American) would think that a state leaving a country like America and becoming their own nation would be smart


If people would, for a moment, consider the logistics of becoming one's separate nation. Consider that for the most part, none of the states have the infrastructure to be self-sufficient. Can anyone tell me how a state that successfully secedes from the US is going to make it work?

They'd rather let the country go down the drain instead of participating in rebuilding it. So who's the winner? Nobody.


This is the statement that sums up the US ever since Bill Clinton left office, and maybe already well before then.
PanzerTank
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PanzerTank
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According to a 21-nation poll

Doesn't quite make up the majority of the world. I also like how most Russians who would vote for Obama or communists... I just found that humourous for some odd reason.

And pretty much the rest of the world thinks the same thing. So really, yes, butthurt might be a lazy way of putting it, but when that's what most of the so-called free world thinks, does the laziness matter?

You want me to cite a source on what admittedly was an anecdotal statement.

I didn't quite take that above statement as an anecdotal one, when you said &quotretty much the rest of the world thinks the same" I took it to mean that you thought most of the world supported Obama, not as an anecdotal and untrue statement.

My bad.

Can anyone tell me how a state that successfully secedes from the US is going to make it work?

Perhaps if all seceding states joined together (which there are 34 states petitioning now) they would be able to be self-reliant and the U.S.A. would be unable to remain self-sufficient?

P.S. Six states have now passed the 25,000 signature threshold. I'm curious as to how Obama will respond to this.
MageGrayWolf
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- Inconceivably high National Debt.

This new seceded state would likely run based on the thinking that got America into the national debt in the first place.

- Poor health care system.

These are the people who don't want a universal health care system, nor do they even want "Obamacare". They want a healthcare system where people pay out of pocket for it themselves.

- Crime.

Considering much of the crime is generated from this ridiculous war on drugs, something that would likely continue, I fail to see how this would be solved. There are further factors that would go into this issue as well that will be touched on.

- Poverty.

Many of these people think a top down model, a model that has proven time and again to be faulty and has thus far only increased poverty is the way to go.

- Pollution.

These are the people who are for heavy deregulation. Many believe that Jesus will come back before anything major happens and thinks global warming is a hoax. Are we really to expect a new nation base on such views will do anything to fix problems with pollution? particularly when you consider Texas would likely have to crank up it's oil production after seceding

- Education.

This is the group that pushes for creationism to be in the classroom an has made attempts to revise history. This is also the group that pushes fro abstinence only programs. This is not the sort of people we can expect high education from.

- Over spending on the U.S.A. army.

This is the group that generally supports that.

- Ridiculous spending on icecream ($20 billion dollars)

Umm, I'm just going to take a guess that this last one was a joke.

Though I wouldn't mind seeing Texas and some of the surrounding states give it a try. Those from the other states wishing to secede can move there and those in those states not wishing to secede can move out.

Of course if you find this moving around of people to be a logistics nightmare, this is only the tip of it. Let's just take the numbers for Texas alone. In this state it had 3,294,440 people who voted for Obama. Now we probably figure non of those want to secede after voting this guy in. There were also 112,560 third party votes. I would wager most of them wouldn't want to secede either. Given the estimated number of people living in Texas as of 2011 we have roughly 17,711,882 people who didn't vote at all. Again for the sake of argument let's say half wouldn't want to secede. That gives us 8,855,941 not wanting to secede out of that group. Out of the one's who voted republican hat groups makes up 4,555,799 people. Not all of them are likely going to want to secede, but this is where we are getting our base for those wanting to secede from. But let's just say all of this group would at least be fine and go alone with it. Adding up the other groups who would be left displaced in the state from the state seceding, that would be an estimated rounded off 21,000,000 people give or take. This is just one state. Just imagine this happening in all the major states wanting to secede.
Strop
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Strop
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MGW has finally bothered to break the practical aspects of this scenario down. If people wish to ask for evidence of the demographic skew, I'd say finding the religious aspects of demographic slant will be difficult as the US Census isn't allowed to ask about religion, but the rest is probably obtainable. In fact I'd be interested to see it.

not as an anecdotal and untrue statement.


Perhaps you meant "unsubstantiated" or "exaggerated", because that's what my statement is. Not necessarily "untrue". I don't mean to labour a point or split hairs to the degree that you are doing, but I offer a clarification and an admission, and the way in which you address it makes me wonder whether you even know what "anecdotal" really means.

To get this back onto a more productive track, I'm still convinced that internationally speaking, those non-US citizens who were aware of the Romney/Obama relection as a whole tended to prefer Obama to Romney. I can't clearly conclude who you (PanzerTank), as an alleged non-American, would have voted for, but since you clearly have some form of bias affecting your commentary, now would be a good time to invite you to share your views and explore the issue further.
partydevil
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partydevil
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Doesn't quite make up the majority of the world.

it is a very good indicator non the less. a poll in the netherlands showed that 85% of the dutch would have voted for obama.

I took it to mean that you thought most of the world supported Obama

seeing that romneys statement was that he wanted more foreign controle and wanted to spend more money on their foreign military operations. (aka dominating the world)
i can safely say. most of the world is against romney and thus supporting obama.

now if you guys didn't had a 2 party system. then it would just be against romney. and not directly supporting obama.

Perhaps if all seceding states joined together

then they would never need to secede, right?
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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then they would never need to secede, right?


It would still be seceding, they would just be forming their own union.

On another note I recently came across this petition.
Force all states to pay their portion of the national debt before they can secede from the union

I think this one does have a legitimate point. The debt owed is shared by all the states and their share would follow these states even in secession.
xoais
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xoais
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I highly doubt this petition (or any other pending petition like this for that matter) will receive any credibility in state courtrooms, where a majority of the participants are knowledgeable on the ramifications of secession. Speaking from a personal perspective, I live in a state with a petition calling for secession, and it is fairly obvious that a majority of people that are supporting said petitions have no idea what would occur in the case of the state leaving the union besides the fact that we leave the union. Obviously, we lose all federal programs/funding/protection. We will need a passport to leave. Any and all debts to the federal government will probably have to be paid, including the portion of the national debt owed by that state. The state will probably have high crime rates and low police forces. It would be chaos.

PanzerTank
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PanzerTank
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Just as a small note, if my count is correct seven states have now passed the 25,000 threshold and Texas has passed the 100,000 signature mark.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Some history on secession.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83856.html

One thing ht annoys me about this secession business is that it's likely in four years when we vote for the next president these same people will be pounding their chest talking about how they are true Americans and patriots.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/65386_293455284105628_1361473344_n.jpg

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