ForumsWEPRLouisiana Petitions To Secede

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CommanderPaladin
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CommanderPaladin
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Not all Americans are enthralled with obama.
According to a news article published online by World News Daily (WND), The residents of Louisiana have started a petition to peacefully secede from the U.S. and form their own government. The petition was started on November 7 of this year, the day after the election.
(Now I'm going to opine a bit.)
While it causes me great pain to see America in the sorry state it's in now, and an act(s) of secession would only intensify the situation, this may be what needs to happen. I love my country and desperately want to see it return to its former glory, but the current regime has taken conditions ranging from fair to poor and exacerbated them to such an extent that the national condition is in a rapidly worsening state of untenability for all involved. The people of Louisiana realize this and are acting accordingly.
I believe that if obama actually cares for this nation like he says he does (which personally I doubt strongly), he would take this new development as a sign that he and the rest of the regime need to reverse their actions and/or resign. If he doesn't, it is likely that this will be the first of many cases of Americans separating themselves from a government that is no longer Of, By, and For The People but rather seeks to enslave them with government dependancy and weakens the nation on the foreign and domestic fronts.

America is dying, people. Something has to be done in short order, or America will be consigned to the ash-heap of history as a great nation that forsook its own ideals and killed itself from within. And I can't stand the thought of that happening.
All of you who believe in God or prayer, please say an extra prayer for the nation tonight.

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SSTG
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SSTG
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On this thread the discussion is now approaching "what does it mean to be patriotic?" It's time for every participant in that discussion to state what they believe it means to "be American".

That's a little hard for me to answer since I'm a Canadian living in the US.
pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
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On this thread the discussion is now approaching "what does it mean to be patriotic?" It's time for every participant in that discussion to state what they believe it means to "be American".


In my opinion, to be patriotic is to love and be loyal to your country no matter what. If you don't like something that is going on, then you don't like it...but you still love your country. In my eyes...if you can't handle 4 years of a president you don't like...then you aren't that patriotic. A true patriot, in my opinion, would be more "yeah...I don't like Obama..but I love America, and I know we will get out of the mess we are in..and I will stick by America's side no matter what"

Take the people in France during the French Revolution (to give an understanding for the connection here...they didn't like what was going on at the time and wanted change..yeah I know it isn't a strong connection..but a connection nonetheless), for example...those apart of the Revolution....we don't call them "Patriots" for what they did, we call them Revolutionists.

And then to those that seceded from the U.S. (Civil War time)...we don't call them "Patriots" either (aha...here we go...a much stronger connection for comparison)...I don't ever hear anyone say something along the lines of "Those Confederates were true Patriots...they didn't like what was going on in their country...so they fled it. Mhm...true Patriots"
Strop
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Strop
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That's a little hard for me to answer since I'm a Canadian living in the US.


It would be difficult, yes, but you could provide an alternative perspective then! It'd still count, given the US's still central position in the world politic.
partydevil
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"what does it mean to be patriotic?"


i once asked here what the difference is between patriotic and nationalistic.
and it turned out that patriotic was being proud of your own country but knowing your not the best. and nationalistic was being proud of your country and think it is better then anyone els.

i thought it was funny. seeing the americans that shout they are real patriotic americans are actually nationalists. the same kind usa was fighting against in the past. xD
SSTG
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SSTG
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It would be difficult, yes, but you could provide an alternative perspective then! It'd still count, given the US's still central position in the world politic.

Well here's a story.
Back in Canada (early 90's) there was a Referendum about Quebec people separating from Canadians. Most of my family voted yes
and I voted no because I thought Canada was a great country and I think it still is.
Am I unpatriotic to Quebec because I'm patriotic to Canada?
Strop
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Strop
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I should be more specific I suppose. When I was posing the question about patriotism (and I'll extend that to nationalism because the terms are distinct, as partydevil pointed out), I meant specifically applied to this context of severe discontent at the political state.

Am I unpatriotic to Quebec because I'm patriotic to Canada?


It is possible, often likely that where countries have mutually exclusive interests you will be asked to make a decision as to where your loyalties lie. In your case it's not necessarily that simple, and I guess aside from those who directly know you, only you can assess your own feelings.

I just wonder whether "in the best interests of" is a phrase that should enter this discussion.
EnigmaX
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EnigmaX
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I just wonder whether "in the best interests of" is a phrase that should enter this discussion


I think you just opened up a can of worms.

The issue I have with the whole Patriotism/Nationalism is that the same person with the same ideals can be both depending on who you ask. An Englishman might consider himself a patriot but an Austrian might consider the same Englishman a radical nationalist for his beliefs because he himself holds contrary beliefs. It really isn't as black and white as one would hold it out to be.
Jacen96
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Jacen96
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You know, some of the petitions are just down right ridiculous.

example, and this, and this

another anti-obama one I think my dad would sign is here.

not sure about this one

and this gem at the end


While browsing through the petitions, I found several duplicates, I think they should do something about that.

~~~Darth Caedus

Strop
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Strop
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I think you just opened up a can of worms.


Well that's the idea! Doesn't this eventually boil down to at least some of the factors that influence the culture of a country? For example the sweeping xenophobic nationalism that's taking hold of several European states, particularly in the light of increasing refugees from neighboring continents/countries? People were earlier discussing the issue but hadn't yet explored the real nitty gritty of it.
Kasic
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Screw you democrat!


Here's where I really have to ask...why did you need to add "democrat" to that statement?

Obama is the worst president this nation has ever had


No, there have definitely been worse.

and He will drive the U.S In the ground.


People typically call God as a capital "He" so I'm trying to figure out if you mean God is going to destroy the U.S.A because Obama was elected, or if you think Obama is God.

Then those who succeeded will form a republican country.


Succeeded or seceded? Two different words you know.

Blk, you aren't proving anything by responding to childish posts in a childish way.
Jacen96
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Jacen96
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Here's where I really have to ask...why did you need to add "democrat" to that statement?
Because there is a huge war between Democrats and Republicans (which kinda of follows what Anakin/Darth Vadar said right before attacking Kenobi), since blk is republican, and the poster he responded to attacked republicans, therefore said poster is democrat.

Personally, I agree with the view that all diehard democrats and those that vote for the democratic candidate are idiots, I also think those that are diehard republicans and those that vote for republican candidates are idiots. My reason is because they are both politicians, and I have little faith in politicians.

~~~Darth Caedus
nichodemus
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Because there is a huge war between Democrats and Republicans (which kinda of follows what Anakin/Darth Vadar said right before attacking Kenobi), since blk is republican, and the poster he responded to attacked republicans, therefore said poster is democrat.

Personally, I agree with the view that all diehard democrats and those that vote for the democratic candidate are idiots, I also think those that are diehard republicans and those that vote for republican candidates are idiots. My reason is because they are both politicians, and I have little faith in politicians.

~~~Darth Caedus


This is all dandy and fine until we hit the ad hominem and parochial generalization. I could be a die hard supporter of either side, and be well read up on both, hence my massive support.
Kasic
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Kasic
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I could be a die hard supporter of either side, and be well read up on both, hence my massive support.


Could be. Though I believe that would be a rare species indeed.

Basically what I meant in my previous rant is that people voting for a candidate "because they're a republican/democrat" or the like is one of the major causes of our troubles. We aren't informing ourselves about the issues, instead we're letting people tell us they're something (and let's face it, knowing if someone is a republican or democrat really tells you almost nothing about their political standing) and voting blindly.

Back to the petitions, the people wanting to secede aren't making things better. It's a statement of discomfort in the nation, sure, but it's a childish one. Likewise with the people signing the petition to send off those who signed the other petition. Our problems won't go away until both sides grow up and learn to educate themselves on actual issues instead of "patriotically" following what they think is "American."
nichodemus
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Basically what I meant in my previous rant is that people voting for a candidate "because they're a republican/democrat" or the like is one of the major causes of our troubles. We aren't informing ourselves about the issues, instead we're letting people tell us they're something (and let's face it, knowing if someone is a republican or democrat really tells you almost nothing about their political standing) and voting blindly.


Actually, it's a relatively reliable source of having a rough gauge of political stances.

Our problems won't go away until both sides grow up and learn to educate themselves on actual issues instead of "patriotically" following what they think is "American."


I think they are educated in some form or another. They need to view it from another side. But democracy is always like that; messy. And the fact that ''state competence'' is a notion so faded and jaded doesn't help; people think the state is devilish and the like.
Kasic
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Kasic
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Actually, it's a relatively reliable source of having a rough gauge of political stances.


Only on the order of knowing whether one falls into a certain very broad range. You may as well know that they like a number between 1-1500 or 501-2000.

I think they are educated in some form or another.


I'm pretty sure (based on my interactions/conversations with people) that most people think they are educated in some form or another, but really haven't looked into it. They learn some basic information, hear some rumors and...create their own view of the person. So while a few things are right, others are just kind of out there and you may as well be talking about a different candidate with every person you talk to.

They need to view it from another side.


That's a large part of the issue. People don't realize that there's more than one answer to many problems, but instigating a bunch of conflicting methods doesn't gain anything.

But democracy is always like that; messy


Indeed. Democracy isn't such a great system if the people aren't informed/educated. It also doesn't work when everything comes down to one side or the other, we no longer have a moderate faction, it's just republicans vs democrats and each side voting for their own and against the other for no other reason than they belong to one of them.
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