ForumsWEPRIs it OK to teach evolution in public schools?

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shortstopkid123
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shortstopkid123
20 posts
Nomad

Many parents argue about schools teaching evolution. Creationalists do not support or believe in the theory of evolution. It goes against their beliefs. They do not believe it should be taught because it apposes many peoples' beliefs. Do you think that it should be taught?

Notes:
Lets try not point out certain religions. I am saying creationalists for a reason.

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MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,470 posts
Farmer

Oh believe me, I have tried to learn. Its just that all that you guys have said was either contradicting my religion, or just plain unbelievable for me.


What do you do when the natural facts and your religion are in conflict? Because that is in essence what's going on.

These natural facts, as you call them are just observed events. A theory in science is the explanation for why and how something took place. This explanation has to fit with all observed events, have practical applicable function function (such as using the the explanation to produce a medicine for example.) and be able to predict that something we haven't observed yet exists (example is how the Big Bang predicted the existence of microwave background radiation.)

Even if there is a God, just saying "God did it" tells us nothing. Assuming God to be real, a theory that included God would have to explain the mechanism and process God used to achieve the outcome we observe.

What we observe doesn't match what the Bible says happened. As for the mechanisms and processes involved, that is vague to non existent in the Bible.

There are definitely things that you guys won't believe, just out of pure spite. We're humans, it's what we do.


Just as you wanted evidence for the Earth being an oblong spheroid before accepting that claim we too want that same level of evidence for the existence of God before we accept the claim that such a being exists.

I can't prove God, but I was born with faith, so I don't have to see.


Belief without evidence, how is this a reliable gauge for reality? You weren't born believing in the God you follow. That was instilled in you, likely by your parents at an early age. That's why religion tends to be regional.

When something is true it doesn't tend to be regional.

Humans need to see to believe.


I want to believe what's true to the best of my abilities. As such I require that I am provided with something verifiable and observable to gauge what I'm being told against before I accept the claim.

This is what earned you a gold star when you didn't accept that the Earth was an oblong spheroid at first. You weren't provided with any evidence to that claim to begin with so you didn't accept it. Why make this exception for something so important such as God? If it is so important then it should require that level of evidence in return to be first accepted.Otherwise you lowering it to the level of acceptance one would give a conartist.

Miracles do happen, and there is proof on the internet, in history books, and even all around you, in a common sense.


Every miracle thus far has been provided on hearsay and/or debunked as a natural occurrence that was mistaken for something else or a con.

"A miracle is sometimes thought of as a perceptible interruption of the laws of nature." -wiki

We don't see natural processes being interrupted all around us. Common sense does not tell us that natural processes suspend themselves, as per what a miracle is.

Faith, in this sense, is the supernatural gift and virtue where we know, love, and serve God from pure senses and common belief.


Faith is belief without proof/evidence, even the Bible described it as such.

Hebrews 11:1(NIV)
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Being certain of what we do not see is a horrid requirement for belief, especially from an all powerful being. I doubt you would accept such a requirement from anything else as being anything but a deception.

proof is evidence to back up a belief. When I want proof, I want proof that I can see in my everyday life.


If there was evidence you wouldn't need faith to believe. Thus making a requirement of faith a useless one, since the evidence can just garner belief.

To swing this back around to the topic. Science will only follow what is observed, from this observation we can from explanations for what is going on. A school is only allowed to teach the explanation that the scientists agree fit all the observations the best. As such it can't teach anything that requires faith.
partydevil
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partydevil
5,133 posts
Jester

no dude, u don't get what i mean. (i forgot who I was dealing with) I meant I don't have to see proof of God.

this got me thinking.....
i havn't said much to you untill today. (nothing you have replied on at least)
(i forgot who I was dealing with)

does this mean you have returned whit a new account? or made a alt for this kinda non-sense? and why did you return? just simple trolling?
pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
9,815 posts
Jester

You would get them at baptism.


I was baptized. ****ty events happened in my life..and great events happened in my life. I, for some time, did attribute those things to a god

Similar events have also happened to members of other religions..and they attributed them to their god.

Do you get what I'm saying here? The events that happened in my life, whether they truly happened or not, happened to others..but we all attributed them to whatever deity we believe in, contradicting each other on the truth (or..what we thought was the truth).

In your case..your god is the truth, while the others are false (and thus, the other people are wrong in attributing their events to a different god), and this is because you have faith in your god. Nothing more. The same goes for the other anonymous/random people.

In our case...evolution and the like are truth because they can be backed by science. We need not have faith in these sciences, because faith is not needed. They are the truth because, in the scientific world, they are true.

Sorry, if u aren't born with faith, a special knowledge of it, u need to see


In the case of EmperorPalpatine and myself (at least, as far as I know)..we were born with faith. We used to be amongst the religious.

Miracles do happen, and there is proof on the internet, in history books, and even all around you, in a common sense.


I used to perceive things as a miracle too. Then I realized that miracle is just a fancy word for "something I, personally, can't explain" or &quoture coincidence".

Oh..and a fun thing I saw. Can't find the video..but in it a guy breaks down how praying works...with a gallon of milk. Basically..pray to a gallon of milk (for example: "Please help me with financial issues&quot..and one of three outcomes will occur
1) Your prayer will be answered (ex: you will find a $5 bill on the road)
-God is gracing you
2) Your prayer will be denied
-God knows what is best
3) Your prayer is answered after a decent amount of time
-You just had to be patient

Again..this is to a gallon of milk. The same outcomes will occur..only the object in which you attribute the actions to has changed from holy to ordinary

Found the video!
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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Jester

we were born with faith.

Technically, we're all born agnostic atheists. No knowledge of any gods, thus no beliefs in them. But yes, we were indoctrinated from a very young age.

Then I realized that miracle is just a fancy word for "something I, personally, can't explain" or &quoture coincidence".

Hey, me too! Ain't it weird how "miracles" went from surviving furnaces, raising the dead, and clearing waterways with a magic stick to "I prayed and found my car keys! Divine intervention prevails!" or "After praying and taking some asprin, the demon causing my headache fled from me!"
pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
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Jester

Technically, we're all born agnostic atheists. No knowledge of any gods, thus no beliefs in them


Hey now..don't confuse him..you know what I meant =p
But yes, we were indoctrinated from a very young age.
Tis what I meant..just using his words

Hey, me too! Ain't it weird how "miracles" went from surviving furnaces, raising the dead, and clearing waterways with a magic stick


Hmm..wonder why we don't see miracles like these anymore
*whispers* maybe is 'cause this shiz don't happen
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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Jester

Tis what I meant..just using his words

I personally didn't feel like saying "I got a 'supernatural gift' but lost it sometime later" or something when that's not the case. That's the problem when people make up their own meanings for words. If I say "computer" means "magical pixie horse", confusion happens.

wonder why we don't see miracles like these anymore

The insanely hypocritical thing is the claim that God revealing His presence in any way would screw with our free will. Seriously? He reportedly SPOKE to crowds of people directly with a thunderous voice, instilling so much terror that they begged that He speak to one person who could relay the info [Ex 20:18,19]. If He's willing to do that for one group and not another, especially when such a thing keeps you from eternal torment, that's favoritism.
KnightDeclan
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KnightDeclan
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Nomad

but you dont see proof of god but do believe in it.
and you are not willing to look at proof contradicting whit you believe in god that has no proof.
so basically, your walking around blind

To me, the world around me is proof of God. The beauty in nature and the high intelligence of man.

KnightDeclan
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KnightDeclan
478 posts
Nomad

Hey, me too! Ain't it weird how "miracles" went from surviving furnaces, raising the dead, and clearing waterways with a magic stick to "I prayed and found my car keys! Divine intervention prevails!" or "After praying and taking some asprin, the demon causing my headache fled from me!"
Oh yeah, very mature, mocking my religious beliefs. I can't believe you guys, it's actually quite funny. Chill bro

KnightDeclan
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KnightDeclan
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Nomad

if so, then it is very easy for you to give me this evidence of miracles, right?
if you could just give me this evidence. and it turns out to be actual miracles. then you've won my soul and i return back to believing in some sort of higher power. (easy as that.)

So satisfy for your lack of faith, why don't you look it up. There are far too many for me to list. (and Im to lazy to)

I was baptized. ****ty events happened in my life..and great events happened in my life. I, for some time, did attribute those things to a god
God gave us free will, not everything happens because of Him.

does this mean you have returned whit a new account? or made a alt for this kinda non-sense? and why did you return? just simple trolling?
Idk what ur getting at here, but I'm only on here for the same reason ur on here. If you think this is trolling, then well, you need to get out more.

Kasic
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Kasic
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Jester

To me, the world around me is proof of God.


The world around muslims are proof of their religion being correct.
The world around jews are proof of their religion being correct.

The world around us is not proof of anything except itself. Every religion attributes existence to itself by default, since they claim to know how the world came to be. This is an invalid argument.

Oh yeah, very mature, mocking my religious beliefs. I can't believe you guys, it's actually quite funny. Chill bro


Care to actually explain why this may be so?
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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Jester

mocking my religious beliefs.

Nope, my mom believes in demons and has said equally ridiculous things before.

the world around me is proof of God. The beauty in nature and the high intelligence of man.

I can point out many things in nature that you'd likely find ugly, as well as many unintelligent people. How does that support your case? This seems like Ray Comfort's banana argument, saying the world was made for us. His proof was the cavendish banana, the common yellow kind. He pointed out that there are 5 points around the outside, matching the human hand so we can grip it easier. There's a protective skin that changes color to show when it's ripe with a tab on top for easy access that God designed like man designed a soda can. When opened, it rests gracefully on the hand. It's curved toward the face. Etc. He later retracted his statements upon learning that the cavendish banana is one of the most selectively cultivated and genetically modified foods in the world. To say everything in nature was designed, specifically with us in mind, is futile. If that's the case, please explain the pineapple and coconut.

not everything happens because of Him.

You say He's the cause of everything, then that He's not. Which is it?
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,444 posts
Jester

mocking my religious beliefs

Or did you mean the part about 'magic stick'? If so, insert 'holy staff'. Does that make you happy? All warm n fuzzy now?
EndlessMarrow
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EndlessMarrow
60 posts
Nomad

Evolution is something that people should learn so terrorists won't make up fake religions.

HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,251 posts
Regent

To me, the world around me is proof of God. The beauty in nature and the high intelligence of man.

I don't want to diminish your opinion, just stating mine; but in my opinion, it is boring to assume it was all created. I mean, god could literally have snapped with the fingers and said voila!
Instead, isn't it so much more astounding to realize it all evolved on itself, that simply by following natural laws such beauty could emerge? Isn't the brain such a marvellous organ when you realize that it is not just a stupid relay station between body and soul, but actually it is you? It is your very consciousness? And all that happened naturally, without design. To me, that is the true beauty behind nature. It's almost poetry.

But independent of our opinions and likes/dislikes, it all started somehow, whether by design or not; this left traces, and reading those traces we conclude that things evolved. That conclusion does not carry any moral with it, it is neither evidence for or against an original designer. It is just observation. Science. Thus it should be taught as such.

Oh yeah, very mature, mocking my religious beliefs. I can't believe you guys, it's actually quite funny. Chill bro

Remember the times where you used to insult and mock all of us for trying to explain our views to you?
KnightDeclan
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KnightDeclan
478 posts
Nomad

I don't want to diminish your opinion, just stating mine; but in my opinion, it is boring to assume it was all created. I mean, god could literally have snapped with the fingers and said voila!
Instead, isn't it so much more astounding to realize it all evolved on itself, that simply by following natural laws such beauty could emerge? Isn't the brain such a marvellous organ when you realize that it is not just a stupid relay station between body and soul, but actually it is you? It is your very consciousness? And all that happened naturally, without design. To me, that is the true beauty behind nature. It's almost poetry.


The problem with the world is that they don't see the beauty of God's love to share His power with us.

Remember the times where you used to insult and mock all of us for trying to explain our views to you?

I may have insulted you, but i didn't mock your beliefs.

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