ForumsWEPRThe Israel and Palestine War

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mbbs112
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Shepherd

In this thread let's discuss about the war that is going on right now against Palestine and Israel.Do you guy's think what Israel is doing is right? I don't think so,lately i have been reading about it and there is even a page on Facebook of a guy who used to live in Gaza and so everyday he post's pictures about what's happening and how bad Israel is but nobody is not helping them and he posted this recently :"Israel has broken 65 U.N resolutions with no consequences. Iraq broke two and got invaded, bombed and destroyed." This is quite unjustice and even nobody is helping Palestine,Anyway's whoever want's to read more just go like his page called Mohammed Zeyara. Now let's discuss further more.

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Kasic
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Kasic
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I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject, but from what I do know, neither side is innocent.

09philj
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09philj
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neither side is innocent.


Aside from the civilians both sides seem intent on murdering in their hundreds.

Hamas is a militant organisation dedicated to dismantling Israel, regardless of the human cost. Israel is in turn, entirely focussed on subjugating the Palestinians, again regardless of cost. If this was 1948, the issue would be relatively clear cut: Israel was created due to an Illegal invasion of another country, and shouldn't exist. 66 years and countless atrocities later, there is basically no hope of a peaceful solution, or any other solution, except the complete annihilation of both sides, unless the Pope really is God's representative on earth and performs the miracle of brokering a lasting peace when the leaders of both side visit him in the Vatican.
Salvidian
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Salvidian
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Blacksmith

America sides with Israel because they don't want to look bad. Any intervention there is probably moot, though.

thebluerabbit
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thebluerabbit
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Farmer

Hamas is a militant organisation dedicated to dismantling Israel, regardless of the human cost. Israel is in turn, entirely focussed on subjugating the Palestinians, again regardless of cost. If this was 1948, the issue would be relatively clear cut: Israel was created due to an Illegal invasion of another country, and shouldn't exist. 66 years and countless atrocities later, there is basically no hope of a peaceful solution, or any other solution, except the complete annihilation of both sides, unless the Pope really is God's representative on earth and performs the miracle of brokering a lasting peace when the leaders of both side visit him in the Vatican.


hmmm why destory both sides? it seems that your idea of peace is a world where those who dont want it are anihilated instead of changing their mind? in that case destroying just one COULD get you peace.

but what is this really about? even if we do agree that israel "shouldnt exist" it does. whats the solution? whats the actual problem? do those who dont live in israel NEED the place? how come there are so many arabs/muslims/beduins etc. who live peacefully in israel with jews who are also getting hurt by the rockets?

does a person over the other side really feels homesick for this place? i dont get the point in this fight. whats the objective? is it that important to cause war and risk (in many cases give) your life?

i might be totally wrong but i keep getting the idea that its just grudge/revenge/ego that is the main problem here. honestly, if someone kicked me out of my house by force and i couldnt do anything about it and 60 years have passed i really wouldnt still try to get it back or hurt the persons family.

two wrongs dont make a right and eye for an eye makes the world go blind. whatever happened in the past, if the only reason for this war is blinded anger theres really no doubt about who takes the offensive/deffensive sides in the present.
09philj
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09philj
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hmmm why destory both sides?

I meant one or both.

how come there are so many arabs/muslims/beduins etc. who live peacefully in israel with jews who are also getting hurt by the rockets?

Because Netanyahu doesn't give a **** about collateral.
Salvidian
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Salvidian
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Blacksmith

Thebluerabbit, the war is due to nationalism. Those groups have had rivalries for nearly 2 thousand years. Mostly it was caused by religion. It's actually not even that complex. It's just a war-torn land with hate-filled people.

partydevil
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partydevil
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thebluerabbit
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thebluerabbit
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Farmer

Thebluerabbit, the war is due to nationalism. Those groups have had rivalries for nearly 2 thousand years. Mostly it was caused by religion. It's actually not even that complex. It's just a war-torn land with hate-filled people.


how is it about religion? there has to be more then that really. isnt it about how israelis got this land? wouldnt that be the main basis of this whole war? if religion was really the only reason i think this would have looked very different.

also, israel really isnt much about religion unlike what most people think. in fact, most people here are either atheist or agnostic and dont care about details of judaism at all.
Salvidian
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Salvidian
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Blacksmith

u w0t m8

I said it was due to nationalism with a large basis of that nationalistic tendency coming from religion. That means it is also about land, economics, culture, heritage, social structure, and lots more. There weren't many atheists in the middle east when Christianity and Islam were at their peaks.

Nationalism = "My country can beat up your country!"

09philj
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09philj
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The whole thing made simple.

I suspect there won't be a lasting peace until we get rid of Netanyahu, because he is already firmly set on the path of blowing the Palestinians to kingdom come.

danielo
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danielo
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Shepherd

Netanyaho didnt wanted a land operation. Stop trying to make us evil.

You keep saying "no one is innocente". "Israel try to subdgoe the palestinian". And as i say again and again about that subject - get your god **** facts straight. You speak out from "what you feel is going on". So ill twll you whats going on. Rockets keep oanding on my god **** town. Im a solider, s you can imagaine how stressed it is. And why is thay? Because Jamas try to gain popularity by sacreficing his slaves.

Lets see who is against who:

Israel -
Democratic, full civil rights for ALL of its citizens. Freedom of speech.

The Gaza autonoumy -
Ruled by an iron fist by Hamasa terrorist organization who use suicide bombers and murdure civilians as a way of fighting, took over Gaza from the palestinian governmwnt by murduring all the palestinian government official in Gaza by the houndreds. They do whatever they want, like shooting at eoles in weddings for playing non-islamic songs and burning waterparks for being "western. Peoples who speak against them, or even just thought to be against them are shot dead and dragged around the streets by a motorcycle. Palestinians who refuse to putrockets in their houses are murdured as well.

Israel let injured palestinian from gaza in to be hospitlize in Israeli Hospitals. Hamas in respones shot at them and closed the gate leading to Israel.

Befor Israel attack a target, they send by SMS to all the citizens in the area that the IAF is going to attack this place. Hamas send these peoples on the roof, by the knowledge that the IAF wont attack because of this.

Long stoey short - Netanyaho is not the robme dear 09philj. The problme is Hamas.Netanyaho agreed for a cease fire. Hamas didnt.

09philj
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09philj
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@danielo

Democratic, full civil rights for ALL of its citizens. Freedom of speech.


That's the theory. Practice is harder when discrimination is part of the culture.

Long stoey short - Netanyaho is not the robme dear 09philj. The problme is Hamas.Netanyaho agreed for a cease fire. Hamas didnt.


It may not actually matter whether Netanyahu is part of the problem, because he is already perceived to be. Whatever he says now, Hamas and Fatah won't listen, especially as he is perceived to be complicit in the murder of civilians. It doesn't matter if they were warned. It doesn't matter if rocket batteries were targeted. His reputation globally is unsalvageable. This would be a good time to get a new, naive, and idealistic president, who wants the best for everyone, and not just a lot of people.

I understand that is a difficult and stressful situation inside Israel, but watch the video if you have not done so already, and consider why each side hates the other.
09philj
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09philj
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and what would happen if Israel decided to aid the Palestinians (residents and refugees), and building them safe, fair communities. If the palestinian majority gets on the government's side, Hamas will be in a much weaker position

danielo
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danielo
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Shepherd

@09philj What this video miss to understand is that there are 2 "types" of arab population in Israel area -
Israeli arabs, who are a full citizens of Israel. they work in whatever they want, they are members of the congress, they live wherever they want and are 100% free.
Palestinian arabs - these peopels live in the autonomy Israel granted to the Palestinian autorities. These peopels are not allowed to travel to Israel freely, but trought gates in which they are inspected in search for wepones.

For another thing - this video represent Israel as an aparthide country who torture teh arabic population. Sure that in teh independence war there have been some nasty acts, but as any war for independece a birth come with pains. The main problme is that the Palestinian still try to revenge us for winning the arab nations who invaded us. they are so stuck in this mud of anger and religious rage that tehy cant move on to the modern world. wher ever they go in the world they bring religious unrest and hate.

for last, about the blames you make against Netanyaho - I dont know what news source you listen to, but Benjamin is not a blood thirsty monster. he is a PM who affraid to break his coalition in the government, adn hesitate to take action. HE AGREED FOR A CEASE FIRE. does that an action of someone who want to kill all the arabs? We again and again agree to stop the fire and again and again Hamas shoot rocket and jump out of tunnles near Israeli towns, wanting to murdure civilians by gun shots to prove how manly they are. They dont care about the palestinians. They want as many palestinian causlties so the world will demand that Israel stop the opporation, so they can say that they won.

Israel drop papers that ask teh population to evacuate. Israel send SMS to the citizens of houses who are about to get hit.

I dont need this video to know "whats going on". I live there.

Edit - for your last question: We tried. they sent suicide bombers and kiddnape us. Plus, Hamas is against that. they burn and destroy anything which is not "Muslim" by them. they murdured an arab actor who made courses for Israelis and arabs. When Hamas took over Gaza They murdured any Palestinian who traded with Israel. But in General, every once in a while, some peopels who dont want peace do an action, like the kiddnapong of the 3 teens, to try to sparke the area. then Israel retaliate, and then teh entire arab youth start to burn the ground. They set fire, They send terrorist attacks, adn make an "Intifada".

09philj
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I find, for once, that I am completely stumped. Having gone over everything again in detail, I have become convinced that there isn't an ethical, peaceful, solution. There are just too many grudges and incompatible ideologies at work. Any ideas I have would only end up with either another unequal state, or a volatile political mixture liable to blow up without warning. The world with either watch as a helpless observer as the situation deteriorates, or interfere and make it worse.

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