Forums → WEPR → The Universe (or Multiverse)

Okay, it is true that the universe IS expanding but not at a fast rate. Scientists said that about every 50 years, the universe will expand ONLY 1 foot. That is because Dark Matter and gravity are pulling it back.

The farthest galaxies are expanding at a rate of about 97% the speed of light. I'd say that's pretty darn fast. It's expanding so rapidly that there are events that are occurring in the universe that we won't be able to see because of this expansion.
Where are you getting your information, Pegasus?

I wouldn't say they are, &quotulling back," just slowing down the expansion. I'm not sure if the expansion will be that small, but it is very slow. Eventually, the affects of the Big Bang will die, and the universe will fall into what is called the Big Crunch.

So you admit defeat? Lol, I'm just playing XP

I am also seeing the word "everything" being thrown around rather loosely, so I'm wondering how this word is being used. If our universe is everything, and we accept there are other universes, then this can't be everything, right? Should we just substitute the phrase "everything with which we could possibly interact" for that word?
Indeed, Ash is right. It is beyond paradoxical to try to think of things outside of our universe, since those "things" would have to, by definition, be mathematically undefined.

Never, I do not admit defeat unless I get showed up by Moderators!

Okay Moe, you have to think that it might be going 97% the speed of light. But try to be the one running when you have 2 tons, or even more, of gravity making you go back. Not to mention that Dark Matter is more powerful then gravity so add about, 3 more tons to the weight bin.

Hehe, I planned on defining that, but I got side tracked :P

Well "everything," in this situation is defined as every aspect of known existance. I think that an alternate universe would only slightly be different, or totally indescribable. Slightly different could be defined as a violet haze as explained earlier, but un-existing anyhting would be impossible to explain.

My point about the universe's expansion was to demonstrate that it does not merely expand at a rate of one foot per 50 years. In fact, we can't really determine how far out into the "void" the universe would expand because the math doesn't work.
I think you might be getting dark matter and dark energy confused. Dark matter is still affected by gravity - it's just dark, meaning we can't see it. It could be something as simple as a dead star (brown or black dwarf) or maybe some other kind of exotic matter. It clearly makes up quite a bit of the mass of most galaxies, including ours.
Dark energy, on the other hand, seems to be working against gravity. It is the entire reason (supposedly) that the universe is expanding in the first place. What is trying to pull the universe back together is, well... all of the mass and gravitational force in the universe.
Current models show the universe overcoming its own gravitation force and expanding forever. This is recent (within the past 7 or so years) and it seems to work out just a bit better than a "Big Crunch" scenario.

@pegasus, the only difference is their writing color! I am sure I can take a mod on in a debate (Not calling anyone out :P)

Well 97% of the speed of light is the speed with those "5 ton weights," so gravity is only starting to make an impact on expansion....

It's interesting that we can conceive of physical laws being different in other universes, but we still must rely on our faulty language in order to try to describe it.
Words like "alive" or "solid" or "substance" hardly have any real mathematical meaning in our universe! Could there conceivably be some sort of metalanguage that would be able to at least define things in our universe and in others?

Moe, if you could figure that out, then you will be the overlord of science! We need to think of better ways to really talk about something as scientific as this. I mean, describing things in our universe is so hard, but another universe? Heck no!

I personally believe that in other universes, what we have found to generally accepted laws of physics and such would still apply. Granted us humans do not truly know a fraction of what there is to be known, but what we do know probably would still apply in another universe.

Gravity would still be a constant, light, etc.. Just because there might be another universe does not mean that the 'laws' would necessarily be any different.

But this is all purely in theory, because who the hell knows? XD

As far as we know, yes. At least for our own universe. Which poses a question: Do we continue to refer to everything(with others universe in the picture) as the universe? Would the meaning just expand to the area that holds everything, meaning all the universes? Kinda like a universe full of universes?

I still am not making my point clear. Voidy, is getting close though.

You have two scenarios:

1. We live in this universe (it contains everything we know). Then outside of the universe is unknown. -- If there is outside of that universe, then we have multiverse.

...so are you asking what is in an alternate universe? (I think no, because we have already established that)

2. We have multiverse. So that means there are all these universes together to make up the multiverse. So, outside of the multiverse is MORE multiverse. Everything that can ever be is somewhere in a universe within the multiverse system.

So... nothing can exist outside because it would just be in another universe in the multiverse. Therefore, the answer is nothing.

OHHHHH! Now I understand Ash. The multiverse is what you call the "outside," of our universe. I thought you meant an alternate universe when you say multiverse. So you think that our universe has a certain boundary that splits our universe from any other? If so, then how is that boundary defined?

outside the universe is the part of the drawing pad that god hasn't filled up yet. Perhaps DARK ENERGY!!!