Forums → WEPR → Lets talk about heaven....
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I know alot of people avoid thees posts about GOD and Heaven but I just want to know peoples oppions about heaven.Do you belive there is a heaven and if you do what do you think its like?
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This might be considered offtopic, bit here's a question that has keeping me busy for a long time:
According to the bible, there's a hell and a heaven, also, god forgives everybody
Who goes to hell if god forgives everybody?
Who goes to hell if god forgives everybody?
I think hell was only really threatened in the Old Testament, God forgives everyone in the New.
It's been a while since I read the book though, so that might not be right.
I think hell was only really threatened in the Old Testament, God forgives everyone in the New.
Now we could wind up with a little jewish/christian battle, but I'm pretty sure thats true
Who goes to hell if god forgives everybody?
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness," (1 Jn 1:9)
Even though he forgives you , you still have to confess your sins unto him so that you would be saved and go to heaven .
Do you belive there is a heaven and if you do what do you think its like?
Just to put my 2 cents in.
I definitely believe in a heaven. Heaven to me is the perfect paradise. Basically, I think heaven is the perfect world you dream of, but I also think there is a per-heaven (the heaven with God). And I agree with you Jonny, confession is a must to be forgiven.
But anyways this thread should be like dead. Since no one posted for two days.
Just to put my 2 cents in.
I definitely believe in a heaven. Heaven to me is the perfect paradise. Basically, I think heaven is the perfect world you dream of, but I also think there is a per-heaven (the heaven with God). And I agree with you Jonny, confession is a must to be forgiven
It sounds nice, but does it exist?
But anyways this thread should be like dead. Since no one posted for two days.
*ahem* jonnypants23, thnx for necroeing the thread...
I think hell was only really threatened in the Old Testament, God forgives everyone in the New.
No he doesn't, he send Jesus to die on the cross FOr our sins. BUT we must confess of our sins first and admit Jesus is our Saviour and the Son of God.
I think hell was only really threatened in the Old Testament, God forgives everyone in the New.
It's been a while since I read the book though, so that might not be right.
Actually the only sin that isn't forgiven in the New Testament is denying God For instance "I deny the father, the son, and the holy spirit" See now I'm (according to the Bible) doomed to hell regardless.
Even though he forgives you , you still have to confess your sins unto him so that you would be saved and go to heaven .
There would seem to be a whole heck of a lot of holes with this method of being saved. There are those who have heard about the religion and don't think it's real thus wouldn't as for forgiveness since we think there is no one there to ask forgiveness from. There are those who would do something that the Bible would regard as a sin but that person would not so they of course would not ask forgiveness for an act they don't see as a sin. There are those who never heard of this thus even if they would believe wouldn't because they wouldn't think to. There are those of other religions who of course wouldn't ask forgiveness from another god.
To put all this into perspective Christianity makes up about 2.1 billion members across all denominations, there are roughly 6.5 billion people so that's at least around 4.4 billion people going to hell because of this "asking for forgiveness clause".
*ahem* jonnypants23, thnx for necroeing the thread...
A few days isn't all that bad and he was on topic.
There would seem to be a whole heck of a lot of holes with this method of being saved.
Actually only one step was left out: First, I acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God, born of the virgin Mary and that the Holy Spirit is alive in my heart. Second, I ask God the Father forgiveness of (all) my sin. Third, I promise to never sin again.
I'm human and I sin everyday but I have been changed from the self-centered, angry, sarcastic, rude person I used to be.
God knew in the Old Testament days, with the children of Abraham that we couldn't obey all of God's commandments so, in the New Testament days, He sent His Son Jesus, to shed His blood on the cross of Calvary.
This replaces the laws of Moses where everyone had to bring the 'first born lamb', without spot or blemish, to the High Priest to be offered as a 'sweet aroma' to God.
There are those who have heard about the religion and don't think it's real thus wouldn't as for forgiveness since we think there is no one there to ask forgiveness from.
For now, God is waiting for everyone on earth to hear the Gospel of Jesus and to come to a decision.
The Holy Spirit doesn't shout like "John the Baptist" did in the wilderness but instead whispers, like when your conscious tells you not to kill the neighbor's cat because it's wrong.
The Bible says it's written in such a way as to confound the wise. Reading the Bible is great but that alone won't save your soul.
The way to the Father is through the Son. The way to the Son is by invitation by the Holy Spirit.
There are those who would do something that the Bible would regard as a sin but that person would not so they of course would not ask forgiveness for an act they don't see as a sin.
These are called sins of 'omission', sins are 'committed' when the person, as a believer, is conscious of the sin. Sins of omission from a believer is when they know it's a sin but they lie to themselves, the Holy Spirit and to God by 'overlooking' them in their prayers until something bad happens, like what happened to King David when he saw Bathsheba bathing on the roof top and 'had to have that woman'.
There are those who never heard of this thus even if they would believe wouldn't because they wouldn't think to.
With non-believers, they don't know they're committing a sin, "the lost don't know they're lost!" They, just as believers, have to be invited by the Holy Spirit before they can make a decision to believe in God.
There are those of other religions who of course wouldn't ask forgiveness from another god.
They are also 'invited' by the Holy Spirit'.
He sent His Son Jesus, to shed His blood on the cross of Calvary.
This replaces the laws of Moses where everyone had to bring the 'first born lamb', without spot or blemish, to the High Priest to be offered as a 'sweet aroma' to God.
Either way this God fellow sure seems obsessed with blood and ritualistic sacrifices. Couldn't such a being just say "I forgive all of you" without all the needless bloodshed? Also as I have mentioned elsewhere if we are to considered Genesis (where this whole thing of sin starts from) as even a bit true God should still be held at least partly responsible.
For now, God is waiting for everyone on earth to hear the Gospel of Jesus and to come to a decision.
And what of all the people who have and will die in the mean time not knowing? In my last post I just did a calculation on the existing people of the world if we were to take into account all the people who ever lived this estimate becomes astronomical.
Really this doesn't solve the problem of not believing in him if he is real. Many of us have heard the Gospels and decided it doesn't match reality. So not believing until solid evidence is presented is the decision we made. If there is a God he's screwing over every atheist by not providing this. But us having actual knowledge seems to be a bad thing to this God.
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."-Wizard Of Oz
The Holy Spirit doesn't shout like "John the Baptist" did in the wilderness but instead whispers, like when your conscious tells you not to kill the neighbor's cat because it's wrong.
Or it's just giving credit where it's not due and short changing human capacity. If you really want everyone's attention do you speak in whispers or do you speak up so everyone can hear?
The Bible says it's written in such a way as to confound the wise.
In other words it don't make no logical sense huh? I can agree with that.
The way to the Father is through the Son. The way to the Son is by invitation by the Holy Spirit.
Considering many consider them one in the same this is just saying "the way to God is through God with RSVP by God."
These are called sins of 'omission', sins are 'committed' when the person, as a believer, is conscious of the sin. Sins of omission from a believer is when they know it's a sin but they lie to themselves, the Holy Spirit and to God by 'overlooking' them in their prayers until something bad happens, like what happened to King David when he saw Bathsheba bathing on the roof top and 'had to have that woman'.
Again this really doesn't solve the issue here. Something bad might not happen or if it does they might not connect the dots. A person could do something that would be regarded as a sin in the Bible and get away with it with no reproductions there entire life. If you only have til the end of your life to ask for this forgiveness, they're screwed.
With non-believers, they don't know they're committing a sin, "the lost don't know they're lost!" They, just as believers, have to be invited by the Holy Spirit before they can make a decision to believe in God.
Since we are working with the assumption this God person is real they aren't going to figure out what this "whisper" is. This also doesn't cover the countless who have already died never hearing about God. So again not solving the problem here.
Also as my figures pointed out with just the current living populations that will go down the hell hole, God seems to be doing a pretty piss poor job of reaching everyone for a supreme being. Considering there are people dying without hearing about this great and blood thirsty being it would seem he's slacking off on his task to whisper in everyone's ear.
They are also 'invited' by the Holy Spirit'.
Pretty much the same story as above, except they are likely to say you got it wrong and the deity they follow is the correct one and the only way is through (insert random concept here).
Also is God is whispering the one true Gospel to everyone all over the world why is religion so regional? So it's either he's not being very clear to the point it's very unlikely anyone could understand defeating the whole point of it. He's giving different mixed messages to everyone, again defeating the point of being "the one true way". Or this is no whispering going on and we are concocting all of this god stuff our self, your concept included. Thus making this "whispering" you think your hearing just an internal part of the human thought process.
*ahem* jonnypants23, thnx for necroeing the thread...
Necroeing ? Im not sure what your talking about ...
Considering many consider them one in the same this is just saying "the way to God is through God with RSVP by God."
God is three in one , there not three diffrent gods .
Heh... Am I the only person who recalls John's description of heaven?
That there were 7 red candles around God's throne, each one representing a divinity of God?
So according to the Bible, its a septupity, not a trinity.
It sounds nice, but does it exist?
I believe it exists, and that's all I need. Evidence is irrelevant when it comes to an afterlife. No one truly knows what happens after death. It's all faith.
That there were 7 red candles around God's throne, each one representing a divinity of God?
7's just the number of completion in the Jewish culture; all John was saying is that God is completely, complete.
So, I'm too lazy to read all of mage's post, otherwise I'm sure I'd have something to say.
*stumbles away to do more biology*
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