Forums → WEPR → The God Debates
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There have been so many interesting topics and conversations in these threads about God, but they end up just going in circles - mostly because those on opposite sides tend to talk past one another. So, to facilitate this excellent dialogue while giving a bit more guidance to the conversation, I (per request) will moderate some discussion. First, some rules:
- Because most of us are familiar with a western notion of God, our conversation will be limited to this kind of God, unless otherwise specified.
- We need to separate the philosophy from the religion. Whatever crimes or irrationality you think a particular group is guilty of doesn't matter here. We're only concerned with arguments.
- Keep to the conversation at hand, and please just ignore those that clearly haven't read the topic introduction.
Ideally, this topic will generate discussion in a particular area until whoever is moderating the discussion feels like the dialogue has run its course. At that point, a new topic will be introduced.
So, first topic:
Does humanity have an intrinsic worth in the absence of God?
So, assuming God does not exist and society recognizes this, would human life have some intrinsic worth? And would this affect arguments against, say, euthanasia, abortion, or suicide?
Perhaps we only have some worth because we think we do, but that's where it ends. Does this line of thought pose any problems? What, if any, advantages would a theist's view of humanity give us when discussing these problems?
- 104 Replies
Without my beliefs in God, I would still be the same angry, miserable, man hating person I was 21 years ago. Because I had a change of heart, not a brain-washing or coercion but an honest and open renewing of my mind and heart I would completely and forever change to the person I am today.
Come 8/22/10 I will be happily married to the same man for 18 years.
My morals are deeper, my friendships are stronger and my level of commitment is the highest its ever been.
Your god sure seems to have softened up after his one third death. I could only find three killings in the new testament, Ananias,Sapphira, and Herod in Acts.
Context doesn't take a passage at face value but digs underneath for meaning and understanding. Again your logic isn't God's; you cannot compare the two as I'm sure you don't claim to know everything.
That is why there are so many versions of Christianity. That and the verse "`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?'" How can you know what is correct if much of it can be false? Using context, I could say that Christians never really come back from the dead but "Live forever" in the memory of those they helped.
Without my beliefs in God, I would still be the same angry, miserable, man hating person I was 21 years ago. Because I had a change of heart, not a brain-washing or coercion but an honest and open renewing of my mind and heart I would completely and forever change to the person I am today.
Come 8/22/10 I will be happily married to the same man for 18 years.
My morals are deeper, my friendships are stronger and my level of commitment is the highest its ever been.
I see you have gotten the sexist "Men are better than women" message that is in many parts of the Bible. You could easily have achieved the same effect threw a different outlet, even a sport would could have done the same. This in no way proves any deity but is a peer pressure "Join us, we are happy" band wagon propaganda kind of thing I dislike(some may even call it brain washing...)
Dear lord what Priest rapped you/why are you viciously militant toward Christianity?
Dear lord what Priest rapped you/why are you viciously militant toward Christianity?
I think the murder of millions, from both hate crimes and wars, as well as religious walls trying to block off stem cell research, cloning, and other human based experiments allows me to be some what hostile of religion.
Now can you argue my points?
Yes religion may be a leading cause of death in the world, but so is politics, and that's only because the subjects are so broad and far reaching.
And FYI, blastulas no longer need to be "aborted" for stem-cells anymore.
Now can you argue my points?
No actually I can't as I'm no phone but I will.
Also in answer to your questions about the wisdom of God I encourage you to read 1 Corinthians chapters 1-3. If you don't I will have to assume that your not willing to know what belief you are arguing against.
And FYI, blastulas no longer need to be "aborted" for stem-cells anymore.
But Christians have kept it back many years.
Yes religion may be a leading cause of death in the world, but so is politics, and that's only because the subjects are so broad and far reaching.
The difference? Without politics, there is usually more death. Without religion, there is usually less death.
Actually people who are pro life have kept it back but now we've found a way both ethical and effective because of the pressure of those that are pro life its a win win situation.
I think your confusing being religious with being an extremist. I don't call out atheists with flaws why should you call out theists?
Why is it so hard for you to see the GOOD that religion has done for humans as a species? So what it gives people another reason to kill each-other, it also gives people reasons not to.
It's also aided the diffusion of a great many ideas and inventions, though subtly.
Hell, the Gutenberg printing press was made for Bibles, and without that method of printing, it would have taken perhaps hundreds of years for the original presses from China to arrive in Europe and modern language wo
modern language would likely be much different*
Sorry for the double-post.
Sure I will read it, it is good for a laugh...
One of my many points witch I find funny...
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
I love ancient Greek mythology and culture. I find it laughable that the Jewish people had done nothing but right this book and the Greek had made hundreds of useful inventions and other works of knowledge. This seems to state that the Jews are better, but in reality the Greek were superior...
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
Even funnier. " Well, so what if you Greek guys have all that technology? WE HAVE A DEAD GUY ON THE CROSS! What now?"
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
If god was omniscient and omnipotent he would have no weakness and no foolishness, so this is suggesting that he is neither. Now I will only comment on the extremely messed up ones... Just kind of got into it there.
1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
I may look stupid, but I have a book that I say will make you live for ever, so listen to me!
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
Don't think about it to much, or you'll poke holes in my book...
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
This one truly is pathetic. "Don't kill a Christian, or you will die!". Do I even have to explain how this is pure fairy tail?
In conclusion:
"Don't question god. He is smarter then you!
Do what I tell you to do.
So what if those Greeks have science? We have religion!
Don't think for yourself. I will do it for you. "
314d1 you stand behind a monitor mocking those who are having a morally correct debate about the said topic. Now, by entering a thread entitled the debate of god. you are most likely one of the following
1) Devout believer in any religion that their is a supreme entity. God
2) Your pure atheist with a hardened hard walled up with concrete.
3) An insecure individual seeking answers.
So pick your choice. But do not come in to a friendly debate with a hardened heart my friend. A debate turns into an argument when one has a unwilling heart. Not to change or "converge" to another religion. But to merely view and analyze the wisdom of another individual with open eyes.
You have a hardened heart and it is abundantly clear. Religion aside you are troubled about something. Whether it be the way you were raised or just.. your philosophical beliefs on religion. You are an unwilling man. Listen to what both sides are saying.
To truly be the judge for yourself whether God exists is up to you. To come up with a verdict you have to listen to both sides and all evidence...Openly!
A judicial court judge does not listen to one side that he/she favors and block out the other.. How will an unbiased verdict be made?
Would you prefer our grand jury to view trials this way?
I'm asking nicely if you would just hear us out and open your cranial cavity and expand your knowledge of both sides. Only then can a clear judgement be made. Not by us, but by you. Believing and understanding are two different things. Knowledge of God, believing in it or not, will not affect you. What fears do you hold?
sorry type on #2
"2) Your pure atheist with a hardened heart walled up with concrete.
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