Forums → WEPR → The God Debates
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There have been so many interesting topics and conversations in these threads about God, but they end up just going in circles - mostly because those on opposite sides tend to talk past one another. So, to facilitate this excellent dialogue while giving a bit more guidance to the conversation, I (per request) will moderate some discussion. First, some rules:
- Because most of us are familiar with a western notion of God, our conversation will be limited to this kind of God, unless otherwise specified.
- We need to separate the philosophy from the religion. Whatever crimes or irrationality you think a particular group is guilty of doesn't matter here. We're only concerned with arguments.
- Keep to the conversation at hand, and please just ignore those that clearly haven't read the topic introduction.
Ideally, this topic will generate discussion in a particular area until whoever is moderating the discussion feels like the dialogue has run its course. At that point, a new topic will be introduced.
So, first topic:
Does humanity have an intrinsic worth in the absence of God?
So, assuming God does not exist and society recognizes this, would human life have some intrinsic worth? And would this affect arguments against, say, euthanasia, abortion, or suicide?
Perhaps we only have some worth because we think we do, but that's where it ends. Does this line of thought pose any problems? What, if any, advantages would a theist's view of humanity give us when discussing these problems?
- 104 Replies
God doesn't really exist because he was just a fantasy created by humans to explain the things that are unexplainable. We have no evidence that god really exists because we know nothing of spirits, gods, demons or anything else that has to do with the religions. We believe that there are a such things as spirits but for all we know our body could just be decaying and nothing happens to our "spirit" we just dissapear into nothing.
Cool story care to debate that or are you done?
A real life example. If you have a best friend who comes over at 3:00 every morning you could easily predict he would come today, unless more observation lead you to believe that he won't come, such as if you observe that his parents died, and you know he liked his parents, then it would be logical to assume he would be doing something with his parents funeral.
The point here is habits aren't the same thing as; hm can't think of the term. Humanity and life as a whole cannot be understood simple habits and social norms sure but not the complex web of interactions.
God doesn't really exist because he was just a fantasy created by humans to explain the things that are unexplainable. We have no evidence that god really exists because we know nothing of spirits, gods, demons or anything else that has to do with the religions. We believe that there are a such things as spirits but for all we know our body could just be decaying and nothing happens to our "spirit" we just dissapear into nothing.
As Samy said, care to elaborate? This sounds like an uneducated rant of personal opinion backed by not even the slightest lick of information.
I do believe in God and religion. Now, most can probably guess my religion. Thats cool and all but I'm not going to talk about my personal beliefs at all.
Think of it this way. Is the idea of having a God so bad? For one, it holds those who have a longing to be closer to God in check. Now, as statistics say, that's nearly 70% of our population world wide that believes in a 'supreme being'. Is this a bad thing to those who do not believe? To have 70% (roughly) of the population being held responsible not only by law, but by this entity? I for one am all for it. I embrace those who take pride in showing their faith and abiding by it. I'm sure we can all agree that for the most part they are genuinely nice and agreeable people. That is until you start a conversation about religion. Then sure, they may try to pressure, or in their eyes, plant a seed in your mind to put you on the right track. Is believing in this "right track" a negative to one's life?
I for one am grateful that there is this longing for a relationship with God of any religion. It is like having another judge. A constant judge.
Everyone has their own opinion. But the idea of this entity just boggles me.
Think of it this way. Is the idea of having a God so bad? For one, it holds those who have a longing to be closer to God in check. Now, as statistics say, that's nearly 70% of our population world wide that believes in a 'supreme being'. Is this a bad thing to those who do not believe? To have 70% (roughly) of the population being held responsible not only by law, but by this entity? I for one am all for it. I embrace those who take pride in showing their faith and abiding by it. I'm sure we can all agree that for the most part they are genuinely nice and agreeable people. That is until you start a conversation about religion. Then sure, they may try to pressure, or in their eyes, plant a seed in your mind to put you on the right track. Is believing in this "right track" a negative to one's life?
Why not follow real laws, with the fear of genuine death on your head?
The Bible (Assuming your a Christian) does not even make a ligament moral code. There are clauses that tell you to kill _____ for ____. I can find mage's list of your gods killings and his condoned killings. Using this as your moral guide would mean ending the earth.
Everyone has their own opinion. But the idea of this entity just boggles me.
Its fact (or more likely fiction) not a matter of opinion. I think I have misunderstood you though, so could you please reword if I am incorrect?
I myself are baptist
Southern Perhaps?
Anyway this is for debating not stating. If you have something to add then you're way more than welcome if not...eh.
I'm no pastor so I'm not going to go grab scripture =]
But I do know that the Holy Wars and crusades were merely to protect the word of God to ensure that it is what it is today. If they had not had the Holy Wars and the crusades, the words and teachings of Jesus Christ would be lost forever. Whether you believe them to be fake or not.
And you are correct on the last point. There is no "in between" it is either you believe or you don't believe. Standing on the fence between these two options will only have you torn into pieces and falling on one side or the other eventually.
I'm not pastor. Just my views and beliefs.
The Bible (Assuming your a Christian) does not even make a ligament moral code. There are clauses that tell you to kill _____ for ____.
Such as?
But I do know that the Holy Wars and crusades were merely to protect the word of God to ensure that it is what it is today. If they had not had the Holy Wars and the crusades, the words and teachings of Jesus Christ would be lost forever. Whether you believe them to be fake or not.
Actually they were worthless wars trying to reclaim the "holy land". They were potentially the worst blemish on the face of Christianity in history.
Don't bother. I'll link. Its Here
You can't say that that is not what it is today, as all those things happened IN THE BIBLE, making it in all Christian beliefs, unless your a red letter Christian, even though Jesus believed in the old testament witch seems like a circular belief to me.
You can't say that that is not what it is today, as all those things happened IN THE BIBLE, making it in all Christian beliefs, unless your a red letter Christian, even though Jesus believed in the old testament witch seems like a circular belief to me.
But there is a difference. Jesus Christ came to pay for men's sin which took away the need for God's justice on Earth.
But there is a difference. Jesus Christ came to pay for men's sin which took away the need for God's justice on Earth.
First, the sacrifice made no since in itself. He had to sacrifice one third of himself in order for him to forgive someone? That would be like me saying I had to cut off my own hand to forgive you for taking my soda.
Second, most of the killings were not justified. For something as little as making fun of a bald guy you would get killed. Most of the kills were unneeded and done in a bloodthirsty tyrant like way.
That would be like me saying I had to cut off my own hand to forgive you for taking my soda.
Seriously? You're comparing absolution for all people on Earth to stealing a soda? I may be an atheist but I can't condone something like that.
Seriously? You're comparing absolution for all people on Earth to stealing a soda? I may be an atheist but I can't condone something like that.
No, I am comparing eating an apple to stealing a soda, as that is all they are said to have originally done.
First, the sacrifice made no since in itself. He had to sacrifice one third of himself in order for him to forgive someone? That would be like me saying I had to cut off my own hand to forgive you for taking my soda.
Trinity reference? Jesus was 100% man and 100% God and he sacrificed all of himself for men's sins. Also you can't forgive sins; you aren't God so...yea.
Second, most of the killings were not justified. For something as little as making fun of a bald guy you would get killed. Most of the kills were unneeded and done in a bloodthirsty tyrant like way.
The Wisdom of God
18For the word of the cross is (AI)foolishness to (AJ)those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is (AK)the power of God.
19For it is written,
"(AL)I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE,
AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE."
20(AM)Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of (AN)this age? Has not God (AO)made foolish the wisdom of (AP)the world?
21For since in the wisdom of God (AQ)the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, (AR)God was well-pleased through the (AS)foolishness of the message preached to (AT)save those who believe.
22For indeed (AU)Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom;
23but we preach [c](AV)Christ crucified, (AW)to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles (AX)foolishness,
24but to those who are (AY)the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ (AZ)the power of God and (BA)the wisdom of God.
25Because the (BB)foolishness of God is wiser than men, and (BC)the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26For consider your (BD)calling, brethren, that there were (BE)not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble;
27but (BF)God has chosen the foolish things of (BG)the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of (BH)the world to shame the things which are strong,
28and the base things of (BI)the world and the despised God has chosen, (BJ)the things that are not, so that He may (BK)nullify the things that are,
29so that (BL)no man may boast before God.
30But by His doing you are in (BM)Christ Jesus, who became to us (BN)wisdom from God, and (BO)righteousness and (BP)sanctification, and (BQ)redemption,
God's wisdom , logic, and understanding is greater than anything man could ever hope to achieve. Therefore you have no right to judge God or his motives only to question for a clearer understanding.
God's wisdom , logic, and understanding is greater than anything man could ever hope to achieve. Therefore you have no right to judge God or his motives only to question for a clearer understanding.
So your listening to a guy who is illogical say he is logical. He massed murdered people for complaining about the food. He mass murdered people for burning incense to him. He mass murdered people for not burning incense...
So your listening to a guy who is illogical say he is logical. He massed murdered people for complaining about the food. He mass murdered people for burning incense to him. He mass murdered people for not burning incense...
Meet my friend context.
Context doesn't take a passage at face value but digs underneath for meaning and understanding. Again your logic isn't God's; you cannot compare the two as I'm sure you don't claim to know everything.
No, I am comparing eating an apple to stealing a soda, as that is all they are said to have originally done.
They disobeyed God this was the first sin but it's no greater than lying. A sin is a sin is a sin.
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