Forums → WEPR → Theism and Atheism
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I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
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Sorry cablecar I think I may have overlooked a part of your post.
On his first day of creation, he creates light. HE SPENT AN ENTIRE DAY MAKING LIGHTING. For any 3D rendering people, I'm sure you have the same difficulty when it comes to lighting too. ;D
Light is also a required recipe in the life sustainability area.
What's producing this light? The sun doesn't exist yet according to the Bible.
What God has just done in this verse is create the atmosphere, but not just any atmosphere. It was an atmosphere with water below and above it therefore creating a "greenhouse effect".
No water above the Earth. If you believing in a literal global flood as you seem to be implying the amount of water over the Earth would have blocked out any incoming light.
sustaining animals, whether they had efficient lungs or not. This, along with "The Great Flood", explain why many large creatures found in fossil form are no longer around.
There is no physical evidence of a global flood for one. If there was water over the Earth that flooded the Earth then where did all this water go? Also it doesn't explain how we find the fossils in the order we would expect if evolution were true.
animals either a. Were killed in The Great Flood. or b. Could not get enough oxygen after the flood with their inefficient lungs (such as the giant insects, pterodactyls, and dinosaurs found in fossil records)and either went extinct or had adaptations that allowed them to become smaller and keep the same lung design (bugs and reptiles specifically).
Actually there are many animals that have since gone extinct that had a more efficient respiratory system then we do today.
Do you seriously still think the Bible is a story made up by uneducated nomads?
Yep.
I have a question. Why would i have to read the original Hebrew to understand what the bible is saying? I'm Christian so why should i have to interpt it in the way Jeudaism does.
Why would i have to read the original Hebrew to understand what the bible is saying?
Because it's the original and there could of been translation problems or language restrictions. In reality the normal bibles are fine and that excuse is just used to avoid problems. Why explain something you can't when you can just say it wasn't in it's purest form so it's out of context or language or era ect...
you didn't get the sarcasm in my post or flowchart did you?
I'm sorry. I did not read the flowchart but no I did not see it in the post either because that is an argument I have actually seen on here.
What's producing this light? The sun doesn't exist yet according to the Bible.
You don't think God can make light? O.o
No water above the Earth. If you believing in a literal global flood as you seem to be implying the amount of water over the Earth would have blocked out any incoming light.
Since when do we have water "Above the sky"?
I believe there was once a small outer layer of water that went around Earth's atmosphere. When God sent the great flood this layer of water fell and some of Earth's oxygen left and a portion of animals (the ones on the ark) died afterwards because they couldn't survive with the level of oxygen. In the past nearly everything was bigger. People were bigger, there were gigantic reptiles and insects, and people and animals lived longer. After the loss of oxygen things just weren't as healthy in nearly every way.
There is no physical evidence of a global flood for one. If there was water over the Earth that flooded the Earth then where did all this water go? Also it doesn't explain how we find the fossils in the order we would expect if evolution were true.
Hmmm... I'm not sure what to say to you on that one. If I were to try to give you some evidence, you would say it was large amounts of time and we'd just argue for a long time so I'm just not gonna answer.
Currents. Water moving, caused by convection. Convection caused by the sun, which would mean the earth was not dark when the currents "started"...
Thanks. I didn't know that. It doesn't mean that currents couldn't have been started "in the dark". Currents are not completely caused by convection either. There are many other causes but all of them we're started by God, no matter what you say about convection. God made the Sun so what was your point exactly?
Wait, how do they "create air"? They would need carbon dioxide to "breath", and if he already was pumping in that then he could just go with oxygen to...
I never said that the oxygen that was there was created by the plants on that day. I said that they would be used in the future by animals and people for food and oxygen. You misunderstood.
What excuse? If they're fine now then what's the problem? Why argue over a problem that's been fixed.
You don't think God can make light? O.o
Is your god physical and luminescent now?
I believe there was once a small outer layer of water that went around Earth's atmosphere. When God sent the great flood this layer of water fell and some of Earth's oxygen left and a portion of animals (the ones on the ark) died afterwards because they couldn't survive with the level of oxygen. In the past nearly everything was bigger. People were bigger, there were gigantic reptiles and insects, and people and animals lived longer. After the loss of oxygen things just weren't as healthy in nearly every way.
....AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. There was never a layer of water above the atmosphere, it would not be able to stay there. Gravity would pull it toward earth. It would probably either freeze or vaporize depending on weather the sun was hitting it or away from it. It would also block out the sun, making life impossible. Where exactly do you think this oxygen went? And why do you thing having more oxygen would make animals larger or humans live longer?
Thanks. I didn't know that. It doesn't mean that currents couldn't have been started "in the dark". Currents are not completely caused by convection either. There are many other causes but all of them we're started by God, no matter what you say about convection. God made the Sun so what was your point exactly?
Yes, it does. When one of the major factors of currents is heat, which comes from the sun, and wind, which comes from the sun, as well as the spinning of the earth, which is spinning around the sun..None of this could happen without the sun. And your god apparently made the sun several days later.
I never said that the oxygen that was there was created by the plants on that day. I said that they would be used in the future by animals and people for food and oxygen. You misunderstood.
So why not make the sun first, so that the plants could actually live? If he was doing it like you suggest, making the plant's food before the plants would be far more logical.
After the loss of oxygen things just weren't as healthy in nearly every way.
Oxygen is an oxidant. More oxygen would mean more free radicals which can speed up the aging process and play a major part in the development of degenerative and/or chronic diseases. So no. More oxygen would not mean healthier people and animals.
I believe there was once a small outer layer of water that went around Earth's atmosphere. When God sent the great flood this layer of water fell and some of Earth's oxygen left and a portion of animals (the ones on the ark) died afterwards because they couldn't survive with the level of oxygen. In the past nearly everything was bigger. People were bigger, there were gigantic reptiles and insects, and people and animals lived longer. After the loss of oxygen things just weren't as healthy in nearly every way.
At what point of insanity do you say "F*** PHYSICS!" And then continue to ignore natural laws of the world? Only to reassert them when you deem it an appropriate time?
Crack open your bible, note how on every page there is roughly 3-5 footnotes on alternate translations of words and phrases. Hebrew doesn't translate well into english.
That's what you meant? Sorry, i thought you meant how we interpt the values, morals, ect...
You don't think God can make light? O.o
If an omnipotent being existed sure he could. But this is still leaves the problem of why he would do this and not just make the sun saving him loads of trouble of having to do all that extra work. The way God made this solar system the way the Bible describes is like a builder constructing a house before he has a foundation. Also observable data doesn't fit the Bibles description of events. The only way this process of the Earth being first could work was if we were in a geocentric solar system, which we are not. So God or no God it doesn't make any sense.
I believe there was once a small outer layer of water that went around Earth's atmosphere. When God sent the great flood this layer of water fell and some of Earth's oxygen left and a portion of animals (the ones on the ark) died afterwards because they couldn't survive with the level of oxygen. In the past nearly everything was bigger.
This still leave the problem of how the amount of water that would be required to fall to create a global flood as described would have blocked out the sun. Also there are plenty of animals that were quite small. We only tend to focus on the giant ones.
Any way there are numerous problems with a global flood I could create a quite lengthy post on just that alone.
I think the answer was that every civilization had floods. When they figured this out they must've thought it was all just one big flood.
I think the answer was that every civilization had floods. When they figured this out they must've thought it was all just one big flood.
Not exactly, but if there is any truth to the global flood scenario it would have actually just have been a local flood. That would still leave the actual story a work of fiction. Though I'm arguing his belief which is that of an actual global flood, which contains numerous problems.
These are the first two verses of the Bible. It clearly says, God has a dark, formless ball of water. It also says the Spirit of God was there, hovering over the waters. What I think of when I read this is that God was surveying the Earth, seeing what he could do with it or he was "stirring" the waters forming currents. If the Earth did not have currents, it would not be able to support life. This seems to me to be a major flaw in the "Big Bang" theory. How were Earth's currents started? There is no power on Earth that could have began currents (including the Moon). There are many components on Earth that do keep the currents going but there is no force that could have caused them to begin. If the Bible was just a fairy tale made by some uneducated nomads why would this part of creation be included? In the Young's Literal Translation it says, "and the Spirit of God was fluttering over the waters," giving evidence of some sort of action going on (the question is "what kind of action?", which I have given evidence for already) Uneducated nomads would not know that currents are required to sustain life. God would, therefore giving further evidence of creative design.
The moon exerts gravity which create currents. It needs no Gods and no bible. And in the bible it says God hovers over the wwater. I doubt the stuppid goatherds thought that anyway and since you believe that bit I assume you believe in adam and eve and talking snakes and a flat earth and everything.
On his first day of creation, he creates light. HE SPENT AN ENTIRE DAY MAKING LIGHTING. For any 3D rendering people, I'm sure you have the same difficulty when it comes to lighting too. ;D
Light is also a required recipe in the life sustainability area.
So far he has created water and light. What's that mean? HE'S TRYING TO MAKE LIFE, DUH. God was planning something great.
Onward.
"Then God said, 'Let there be a space between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth.' And that is what happened. God made this space to separate the waters of the earth from the waters of the heavens. God called the space 'sky.'"
What God has just done in this verse is create the atmosphere, but not just any atmosphere. It was an atmosphere with water below and above it therefore creating a "greenhouse effect". It was perfect for sustaining animals, whether they had efficient lungs or not. This, along with "The Great Flood", explain why many large creatures found in fossil form are no longer around. In the story of the great flood it says, "and the floodgates of the heavens were opened," giving some recollection to this outer layer of water God had created to make the Earth sustainable. The
animals either a. Were killed in The Great Flood. or b. Could not get enough oxygen after the flood with their inefficient lungs (such as the giant insects, pterodactyls, and dinosaurs found in fossil records)and either went extinct or had adaptations that allowed them to become smaller and keep the same lung design (bugs and reptiles specifically). Do you seriously still think the Bible is a story made up by uneducated nomads? The book of Genesis was written by Moses. There is a fair chance he probably didn't understand atmospheric science and its effect on life sustainability. But God did.
You take stuff writen by stupid goatherds and claim this fits with modern science. It doesn't. There was nothing to make light so how did light come and the waterabove was a primitive idea of how it rained
He creates all celestial bodies. *fish face* Wow, dang, that's pretty amazing. You try doing that in one day. :P Well anyways, this leads me to some other topics that are quite interesting. *strokes beard*(just kidding) Well, I have got some interesting information for those who think that the universe was created completely randomly. If the Moon were any farther from Earth, it could not form a full solar eclipse. If the Moon were any smaller it could not form a full solar eclipse. The Moon travels at a steady rate away from Earth (3.8 cm) so why at this time is the Moon just the right size and distance for a full solar eclipse right when we (humans) evolve into the equation? It doesn't make sense. Maybe God made it that way 7,000 years ago and there hasn't been enough time for it to lose this attribute. Hmmm... Also, God made our solar system special. He gave it a single star. Many star systems (scientific fact) are dual-star systems. Dual-star systems are unable to sustain life due to the fact that there is constantly varying distances between suns and temperatures on planets near them. Thus God made Earth a proper distance from the Sun and made the Sun just the right heat and did not give it the dual-star attribute of many of our neighboring star-systems. Thank God for a sustainable Earth.
there was no time for starlight to come to earth, we evolved a lot more than 7000 years ago and it doesn't matter about solar eclipses. They don't affect us.
I believe there was once a small outer layer of water that went around Earth's atmosphere. When God sent the great flood this layer of water fell and some of Earth's oxygen left and a portion of animals (the ones on the ark) died afterwards because they couldn't survive with the level of oxygen. In the past nearly everything was bigger. People were bigger, there were gigantic reptiles and insects, and people and animals lived longer. After the loss of oxygen things just weren't as healthy in nearly every way.
Better proof than i believe please.,
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