ForumsWEPRQuran and science

20 2295
thepunisher93
offline
thepunisher93
1,830 posts
415

I just read an article
on this subject and I was astonished to see that on how many things they both agree.
A quote

. Modern astronomy confirms that the solar system is indeed moving in space at a rate of 12 miles per second towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules ( alpha lyrae ) whose exact location has been precisely calculated. Astronomers have even give it a name, the solar apex.

In Quran's words
"The sun runs its coarse to a settled place That is the decree of the Almighty, the All Knowing.â Qurâan, 36:38
  • 20 Replies
314d1
offline
314d1
3,857 posts
0

I just read an article
on this subject and I was astonished to see that on how many things they both agree.
A quote

. Modern astronomy confirms that the solar system is indeed moving in space at a rate of 12 miles per second towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules ( alpha lyrae ) whose exact location has been precisely calculated. Astronomers have even give it a name, the solar apex.

In Quran's words

"The sun runs its coarse to a settled place That is the decree of the Almighty, the All Knowing.� Qur�an, 36:38


...?

Now imagine that you are a little peasant in the desert of thousands of years ago. When you say "THE SUN RUNS Its COURCE!" you mean "OVER THE SKY!". You know. Like a day. Which would make since, considering that peasants believed that the sun revolved around the earth. In fact, that paragraph looks a lot more like "The sun revolves around the earth"...

Especially when you consider some things like:

21:30 Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water ? Will they not then believe ?
21:31 And We have placed in the earth firm hills lest it quake with them, and We have placed therein ravines as roads that haply they may find their way.
21:32 And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.
21:33 And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit.

Stating that everything revolves around a (Probably flat) Earth.
Avorne
offline
Avorne
3,113 posts
655

A lot of the things that people have claimed as being examples of the Quran being right about scientific matters are either written in rather ambiguous or poetic language and only claimed as being 'right' after science has already proven them to be (nobody ever seems to make hypotheses based on the things said in the Quran) or likely to be based on earlier ideas (such as those proposed by the Ancient Greeks or the early-scientific Arabs).

thepunisher93
offline
thepunisher93
1,830 posts
415

21:30 Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water ? Will they not then believe ?

Big bang and and child birth
21:33 And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit.

Day follows night and night follows day
Similarly we know the orbital motion of sun and moon
Moon aroun the Earth and sun Around the galaxy.
21:31 And We have placed in the earth firm hills lest it quake with them, and We have placed therein ravines as roads that haply they may find their way.

I don't know what it means as my English is not good
But here is the simpler version
21:31 And We have placed in the earth firm hills lest it quake with them, and We have placed therein ravines as roads that haply they may find their way.

Research have shown that mountains have roots going deeper than their height
Its literal meaning is
And We made the sky a protected ceiling, but they, from its signs, are turning away.

Take translations from here as they are in simple english
21:32 And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.
314d1
offline
314d1
3,857 posts
0

...****. I wrote something on the creation but backspaced outside the box right before posting it. So I will skip it and simply state that it is completely insane and grasping at straws so badly that the Cat in the Hat is a more accurate picture of the creation of the universe.

ASTRONOMY

"Did you see how Allah created seven heavens, one above the other, and made in them the moon a light and the sun a lamp?" Qurâan, 78:12-13


....He thinks that is scientific? I don't recall a "Light" meaning "Reflected from the lamp". When someone says "Turn off the lights" I don't go turn around the mirror. I turn off something that is actively producing light. This clearly states that the Sun and Moon produce light, which is defiantly not to par with modern science.

"Seven Heavens"...*Looks up* The Sun, the moon, and five planets that would be known at the time Muhammad was thought to exist. Apparently the other planets don't even exist?

âHe coils the night upon the day and the day upon the night.â Qurâan, 39:5


.........
........
....He thinks the word "Coils" means that it is on scientific tract with modern times?

For the next one I pull out my own online Quran and get the quote in context:

51:47 We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).
51:48 And the earth have We laid out, how gracious is the Spreader (thereof)!

So not "Spreading a universe" like it is, but "Spreading the earth and universe" like you do to toast. Making the earth and the seven heavens on a flat area. Or having a flat earth.

Half the quotes don't even make since. Now this time I will post this before it breaks...
thepunisher93
offline
thepunisher93
1,830 posts
415

That was the simpler version

And We placed within the earth firmly set mountains, lest it should shift with them, and We made therein [mountain] passes [as] roads that they might be guided.

A lot of the things that people have claimed as being examples of the Quran being right about scientific matters are either written in rather ambiguous or poetic language and only claimed as being 'right' after science has already proven them to be (nobody ever seems to make hypotheses based on the things said in the Quran) or likely to be based on earlier ideas (such as those proposed by the Ancient Greeks or the early-scientific Arabs).

In those days science was not evolved enough yet to describe them in scientific names.Quran is written in that time's common language with examples that a common man could understand
314d1
offline
314d1
3,857 posts
0

Big bang and and child birth


......
......
......
Alif. Lam. Mim.
What? That doesn't make any since.

Day follows night and night follows day
Similarly we know the orbital motion of sun and moon
Moon aroun the Earth and sun Around the galaxy.


Once again, this clearly means that they both orbit...Around the Earth. Which is why he is using it to explain the cycle of night and day. Both going around the earth in their orbit. There is nothing to suggest that the sun is orbiting around the galaxy, but it does suggest that it is around the earth.

Research have shown that mountains have roots going deeper than their height
Its literal meaning is


....
....
...
Alif. Lam. Mim.

"Mountains going deeper than their height"?... "LOOK AT THIS JIM!" "What?" "I DUG UNDER A MOUNTAIN!" "OH MY GOD BOB DID YOU FALL OFF OT YOUR DEATH!" "NO! LOOK! MOUNTAINS GO ON UNDERGROUND" "OH MY GOD!"?

.....What did you think was under mountains?
314d1
offline
314d1
3,857 posts
0

Geology:

âHave you not seen that Allah sent rain down from the sky and caused it to penetrate the ground and come forth as springs, then He caused crops of different colors to grow...â Qurâan,39:21


Apparently the anther's idea of "Advanced Science" is that rain is a thing and grows crops. I would assume people in the desert have a good working knowledge on what happens to crops when it doesn't rain, it wouldn't be that hard to say "Duh.".

âHave We not made the earth an expanse and the mountains stakes?â


Wait. ...He thinks that this states that theory of continental drift causes mountains when to plates hit each other? This sounds a lot more like "The earth is flat and mountains where put there like stakes. Hit into the ground like a nail. From the sky" rather than the theory of continental drift.

....How is the water cycle geology anyway?
thepunisher93
offline
thepunisher93
1,830 posts
415

....He thinks that is scientific? I don't recall a "Light" meaning "Reflected from the lamp". When someone says "Turn off the lights" I don't go turn around the mirror. I turn off something that is actively producing light. This clearly states that the Sun and Moon produce light, which is defiantly not to par with modern science.

Arabic is not like English
Yes noor means light but Siraj means Lamp
and when these two words are used in a same Sentence then noor means Light of lamp
"Seven Heavens"...*Looks up* The Sun, the moon, and five planets that would be known at the time Muhammad was thought to exist. Apparently the other planets don't even exist?

Exosphere
Thermosphere
Mesosphere
Stratosphere
Troposphere
ozone layer
magnetosphere

51:47 We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).

This one is about Expansion of space.
51:48 And the earth have We laid out, how gracious is the Spreader (thereof)!

Here the action spreading is taken as spreading your bedsheet on the bed not like expanding.
This just says that God have created the earth.
thepunisher93
offline
thepunisher93
1,830 posts
415

Alif. Lam. Mim.
What? That doesn't make any since.

There are few more words like this which we believe only god has knowledge of
Once again, this clearly means that they both orbit...Around the Earth. Which is why he is using it to explain the cycle of night and day. Both going around the earth in their orbit. There is nothing to suggest that the sun is orbiting around the galaxy, but it does suggest that it is around the earth.

look in the article and you will get my point
Apparently the anther's idea of "Advanced Science" is that rain is a thing and grows crops. I would assume people in the desert have a good working knowledge on what happens to crops when it doesn't rain, it wouldn't be that hard to say "Duh.".

Does ancient man know where from where water came into springs?(I'm talking about springs not lakes)
314d1
offline
314d1
3,857 posts
0

âDo the unbelievers not realize that the heavens and the earth were joined together,

then I clove them asunder and I made every living thing out of water. Will they still not believe?â Qurâan, 21:30


I am starting to think that you don't understand what he is getting at.

I am kind of laughing right now at this little punwork he made here on accident. This verse obviously means "Everything is made of water if it lives". Which is obvious to everyone, seeing as how things need to drink. Especially in the desert, where you see things dry up if they don't get water or get sun. This does not mean that they came...From the water, as in life starting in the ocean, and you would have to stretch it out far to see that.

â(God is the One who) sent down rain from the sky and with it brought forth a variety of plants in pairs.â Qurâan, 20:53


â... and of all fruits (God) placed (on the earth) two pairs.â Qurâan, 13:3


It also says that everything else was brought in pairs to. Which would be incorrect, given that many single celled organisms, especially those that use photosynthesis, are asexual.

The next one is another that needs context. So I bring out my own Quran again:

16:66 And lo! in the cattle there is a lesson for you. We give you to drink of that which is in their bellies, from betwixt the refuse and the blood, pure milk palatable to the drinkers.

This isn't some thing telling you about circulatory systems and digestive tracts. You would have to be insane to think that. This obviously means that, even though the cow bleeds and poops near the udder, the udder still allows you to eat.

I find it especially interesting that the next little bit suggests that bees eat fruit...

16:68 And thy Lord inspired the bee, saying: Choose thou habitations in the hills and in the trees and in that which they thatch; 16:69 Then eat of all fruits, and follow the ways of thy Lord, made smooth (for thee). There cometh forth from their bellies a drink divers of hues, wherein is healing for mankind. Lo! herein is indeed a portent for people who reflect.

Next Embryology.
314d1
offline
314d1
3,857 posts
0

Arabic is not like English
Yes noor means light but Siraj means Lamp
and when these two words are used in a same Sentence then noor means Light of lamp


English has something like that, like saying "Lamp light". In that case, can you put up your best translation of the verse? I don't speak a lick of Arabic.

Exosphere
Thermosphere
Mesosphere
Stratosphere
Troposphere
ozone layer
magnetosphere


Exosphere
Thermosphere
Mesosphere
Stratosphere
Troposphere

The main ones. The five heavens apparently?

Continuing:
ozone layer (In the stratosphere)
ionosphere (Exosphere and Thermosphere)
homosphere
hetrosphere
planetary boundary layer

Which are all contained in the other areas. Here is the wiki, if you want to educate yourself a little. The magneto sphere is not part of the atmosphere even. Where are you getting this information?

This one is about Expansion of space.


Eh? How. It just says the sky is big. I live in Montana, and they call it "The Big Sky State". This doesn't mean that people realized that the universe was large and expansive and expanding. This meant that you can see the sky forever.

Here the action spreading is taken as spreading your bedsheet on the bed not like expanding.
This just says that God have created the earth.


Spreading my bread sheet. Like spreading butter. Making it flat, yes? Note expanding? Just like it says the universe is?

There are few more words like this which we believe only god has knowledge of


You wrote something that I had no clue of (Birth and the Big bang? He stated it was abiogenesis...So now we both don't understand each others post and thus are even. I knew you wouldn't know it, no one does, it makes no since.

look in the article and you will get my point


I am, and I don't. I have been responding to both the article and you.

Does ancient man know where from where water came into springs?(I'm talking about springs not lakes)


I assume they would, but the theory itself was not stated until the sixteenth sentry.

And besides that, is that what it even states? If I where to pull something from say... The Christian's Bible, would you agree with that?
314d1
offline
314d1
3,857 posts
0

âI fashioned the clinging entity into a chewed lump of flesh and I fashioned the chewed flesh into bones and I clothed the bones with intact flesh.â Qurâan, 23:14


....How does that sound like an embryo forming? It sounds a lot more like a psychotic puppet to me. You would have to be more stretched out than the flat earth to even think that has anything to do with embryos.

âI fashioned (humans) a clinging entity, then into a lump of flesh in proportion and out of proportion.â Qurâan, 22:5.


Once again, it sounds a lot more like he is making a claymatation doll than a human.

And that is pretty much where it ends.
Kasic
offline
Kasic
5,602 posts
3,605

Punisher, no matter how I look at your quotes, I can't reach the same conclusions as you.

You're reading modern understandings into primitive (by comparison) explanations of our world that just don't fit.

It's like saying, "And then the sun crested the horizon" and trying to make a case that that passage is the heliocentric model. That's not what it says. You're adding meanings to it that are quite frankly not there in an attempt at apologetics in keeping a ~1400 year old belief that has roots going back three times as far afloat in a modern world where we can directly disprove what is in your holy book as false or inaccurate.

MageGrayWolf
offline
MageGrayWolf
9,544 posts
2,210

These arguments of science in ancient text sound to me like the same arguments used to claim old and ancient works of art depict alien space craft.

ihsahn
offline
ihsahn
428 posts
245

Even if the Quran had predicted the weather and the lottery numbers today, its unfounded claims about the invisible man in the sky wouldn't be any less unfounded.

Showing 1-15 of 20