ForumsWEPRis abortion ok?

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toemas
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toemas
339 posts
Farmer

Is abortion ok? I donât think so. The babies that these people are killing is wrong, some people say that itâs not a person that itâs a bag of cells or a fetus and not really human being I have to disagree

Please debate

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pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
9,815 posts
Jester

I guess if you want to be heartless,


Wow that totally isn't an unnecessary and uninformed viewpoint on the pro-choice stance
Kasic
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Kasic
5,557 posts
Jester

[quote]I guess if you want to be heartless,


Wow that totally isn't an unnecessary and uninformed viewpoint on the pro-choice stance [/quote]

It actually would be heartless if it was aborted before the heart formed. Because you know, it wouldn't have a heart and all...
Kasic
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Kasic
5,557 posts
Jester

For me, it depends on whether the mother was responsible or not for the pregnancy.


What about when contraceptives fail? What about when the woman's life is at risk? What about if they're still in high school but it was consensual? There are so many factors involved that it's impossible to separate the topic into a few groups.

No one has the right to make that decision for another. It's their body and you do not know their reasons or circumstances. Nor do you need to, and nor do they need to justify them to you.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,444 posts
Jester

But if a girl was raped and got pregnant, aborting the baby would be an understandable possibility, since, you know, she got raped.


At this point, you've already thrown out pre-birth rights, so why do you object when it's "the mother's fault"?
abt79
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abt79
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Blacksmith

The unborn child doesn't really deserve to die because of a man's crimes....if anyone the man should.....so even in the case of rape, still no.
And it's not the woman's choice because it isn't her body.

FishPreferred
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FishPreferred
3,171 posts
Duke

The unborn child doesn't really deserve to die because of a man's crimes....if anyone the man should.....so even in the case of rape, still no.
And it's not the woman's choice because it isn't her body.


1 It isn't a child unless she leaves it to develop. No child is dying here; only a cluster of cells.
2 It's a parasitic organism attached to her body. Whether she allows her body to become an incubator for this organism is her choice.
09philj
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09philj
2,825 posts
Jester

1 It isn't a child unless she leaves it to develop. No child is dying here; only a cluster of cells.

In place of child, the term foetus should actually be used: it's not a child until it's born.

What if you found out your future child had a high chance of having a severe genetic defect? What would you do then? (Assuming it's still an embryo at this stage. Just a ball of cells)

nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,981 posts
Grand Duke

What if you found out your future child had a high chance of having a severe genetic defect? What would you do then? (Assuming it's still an embryo at this stage. Just a ball of cells)


Honestly, I would be at a loss. Would the defect severely hamper my child's ability to live normally, and how so? Would it be better to deny him/her a chance to live, albeit a cursed life, or would it be more merciful to proceed with an abortion?

Either way, it would be best if the option was available.
HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Regent

People always forget about the woman. "The unborn child doesn't really deserve to die because of a man's crimes!". So what about her? Does she deserve to be reminded day by day of that traumatic event? Does she deserve to be forced to carry out the son of her rapist in case it makes it through pregnancy alive?

No. In cases of rape, for the victims sake I say any resulting pregnancy should be prevented, lest it aggravates or prevents any recovery.

Kasic
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Kasic
5,557 posts
Jester

In place of child, the term foetus should actually be used: it's not a child until it's born.


It really doesn't matter. The words are interchangeable. Fetus is a stage of development, while child simply means immature human offspring. It's the difference between how specific you want to be. Personally, as long as the fetus/baby is intending to be carried to term by the mother (or would have been intended if she had known in the case she didn't), I think rights of protection should apply to that fetus/baby.

What if you found out your future child had a high chance of having a severe genetic defect? What would you do then?


That would depend entirely on the circumstances. My financial situation, partner's opinion, and nature of the genetic defect would all be huge components that could shift it. Especially if it was a child that had been planned and wasn't the result of failed contraception.

Does she deserve to be forced to carry out the son of her rapist in case it makes it through pregnancy alive?


And even after the pregnancy is over, her body has been permanently changed. There's a chance of her dying too.

No. In cases of rape, for the victims sake I say any resulting pregnancy should be prevented, lest it aggravates or prevents any recovery.


I fully agree that a woman who has been raped (not just women can be raped) has the choice of whether she wants to take measures to prevent/abort a pregnancy, but I don't think it "should be" as an absolute statement.

I thought of an interesting question. What if a woman lies to a man or purposefully undermines contraception with the intention of getting pregnant? What if a woman rapes a man and impregnates herself? Would the man have any legal right to have that woman receive an abortion?
FishPreferred
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FishPreferred
3,171 posts
Duke

I thought of an interesting question. What if a woman lies to a man or purposefully undermines contraception with the intention of getting pregnant? What if a woman rapes a man and impregnates herself? Would the man have any legal right to have that woman receive an abortion?


That's a good...and disturbing...question. She should not be permitted to extort childcare payments as a result, but I would think she has free reign, otherwise.
HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,250 posts
Regent

I fully agree that a woman who has been raped (not just women can be raped) has the choice of whether she wants to take measures to prevent/abort a pregnancy, but I don't think it "should be" as an absolute statement.

I just think it's a bad idea, mostly psychologically speaking. But I didn't mean that it should be enforced; the woman should still have the right to not take any measures*. This could be discussed during medical and psychological sessions following the rape.

*This also means that, answering to your other question, a man has no right to interfere with that decision. I'm personally not sure how I feel about this, but it is the logical conclusion of the above. I definitely agree with FishPreferred that, at least in cases of consensual sex where the child was conceived against the will of the man, he has no responsibility to pay anything.
Kasic
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Kasic
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Jester

She should not be permitted to extort childcare payments as a result, but I would think she has free reign, otherwise.

The not having the father be responsible for child support is the easiest conclusion that I think most people can agree would be a sensible response. I think the hardest part of the question is whether a man has ownership rights of his genetic material - and by extension, whether a woman does too.

Honestly I'm stumped. On the surface I want to say, "Yeah, of course they do!" but then you get into the whole subject of invading another person's body to make that happen, and hey, it gets kinda messed up there. Looking at it from the opposite perspective, would a woman who had one of her eggs stolen and transplanted into another woman that was fertilized by another man have the legal right to have that woman have an abortion?

*This also means that, answering to your other question, a man has no right to interfere with that decision.

Even if the male was the victim and the female the perpetrator? I can't put it into words but there's definitely something about this hypothetical that I'm in opposition to. It does not sound correct to me that a person should be able to do that. The problem is I don't think anyone should be able to force a woman to have an abortion against her will. Perhaps this is just one of those lesser vs greater evil things.

Maybe the best response would be to make it so that, after the child was born, parental rights were only extended to the father and not the mother if he wishes, so that even if the woman who raped him decided to take the pregnancy to term, the child wouldn't be legally considered hers.

FishPreferred
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FishPreferred
3,171 posts
Duke

Even if the male was the victim and the female the perpetrator? I can't put it into words but there's definitely something about this hypothetical that I'm in opposition to. It does not sound correct to me that a person should be able to do that.


That's a separate issue altogether. The woman, in this case, abuses the man and, as a result, becomes pregnant. We can probably agree that the initial abuse is immoral and unjustifiable. She should not be able to do that, but what she does with the foetus is within her right.
pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
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Jester

What if a woman lies to a man or purposefully undermines contraception with the intention of getting pregnant? What if a woman rapes a man and impregnates herself? Would the man have any legal right to have that woman receive an abortion?


She should still have the right to her body..but opt out options for men in regards to the parenthood should be an option for equality.

In regards to 'if a woman rapes a man and impregnates herself
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