Forums → WEPR → Pashtunistan

What is missing from the current discussion is the semi racial element. The Taleban claim to welcome those who follow the path of Allah, but as is sadly inevitable in all exclusive doctrines, outsiders are seen as less than human. Much of the conflict which exists now is drawn upon tribal lines, but not in the way one would think. It is more similar to racism/xenophobia than tribalism in terms of the way if affects the collective behaviour of the Afghans as a whole. This is not lost upon the non Pashtun Afghans who have much to lose should the Taleban return to power. Sure, they dislike the duplicity of ISAF, and the corruption of Kabul, but at the end of the day, these institutions aren't going to chop off their feet for the simple reason of inhabiting a different region of the country. As cynical as this may sound, it might be wise for ISAF and Karzai to play on this fear in order to diminish support for Islamic fundamentalism in Helmand..

Those you mention is Pashtun groups, beside the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan. And they were all united/allied under the Taliban rule. Basically they fight for the same cause.

Islamic Jihad Union

That why creating a Pashtunistan will be a good idea, since the government would have the focus on its people.

I would like you to highlight where I wrote Iranians have supported Taliban. It seems like you keep ignoring my statements. You made up this statement, and from previous post were I explained several times that Talibans had nothing to do with Pashtuns.

What have Taliban anything to do with Pashtuns. You yourself said Taliban was in power. Talibans didnt do anything for Pashtun interest, and they were very against nationalism/patriotism. They even dedicated they victories from British Empire and Soviet union to Islam and not for afghans.

1 religious school doesn't form a group of more then hundreds thousand fighters. Pakistan and Saudi keep supporting them even after soviet was gone.

The money was used to support the extremist even before Taliban was formed. Pakistan, Saudi and USA was the one who supported them and there is plenty of documentary about that.

The Taliban was very religious people and racism and nationalism was forbidden under their rule. If they were racist why would they allow al-qaeder to stay and make military training. I do agree on they were harsh against shia muslims, but when it came to suni muslims they didnt care who they were as long they followed the strict Islam they had.

No, the government would on paper have to focus on its own people. But most of the politicians from Afghanistan have proven utterly inept and corrupt.

Then you have no idea what kind of brainwashing was done in the religious schools. And by support the extremist, you are giving them bigger influence.
It actually the same thing Iran is doing in western Afghanistan. They are only supporting people who are pro-Iran. This way they increase they influence throughout Afghanistan.

What have the Taliban got to do with the Pashtuns? The Taliban are almost completely made up of Pashtuns. Their support comes from the Pashtuns.

So why the need for a homeland?

The dispute is your claim that the Taliban were started, not just funded, by external forces.

Not racist or intolerant? They blew up the Bamiyan statues for being Buddhist. Mullah Mohammed Omar, the Taliban leader, issued a special edict on Feb 26 201 ordering the destruction of all non-Islamic statues.

The ''as long as they followed the strict Islam they had'' is in itself, showing their intolerance.

The politicians may be corrupt, but the economy will be growing. And the corruption will eventually fade away to, when the people gets more educated.

As I said before they get the support from Pashtuns because Pakistan and Afghan government fail to support that particular ethnic group. The reason it is mostly made up of Pashtun is because of the poverty, since that is the main source of Taliban recruiting. Taliban dont even follow the Pashtunwali, which is the main thing to be considered a Pashtun.

Because country building is not made in Pashtun areas. The economy is growing everywhere in Afghanistan and Pakistan, but not in the Pashtun areas. The only thing they ever gets from these two government and the international force is rain consist of bombs. If the government is centered in those areas then the nation building will happen in those areas.
In the other hand these people need a nation where they can speak their own language and educate themselves on their own history. A nation where they can follow their own culture and be themselves.

I didnt say they started it. Mullah Mohammed Omar started it, but USA, Pakistan and Saudi was indirectly involved since they funded them and increased extremist influence.

Then you have no idea what kind of brainwashing was done in the religious schools. And by support the extremist, you are giving them bigger influence.
It actually the same thing Iran is doing in western Afghanistan. They are only supporting people who are pro-Iran. This way they increase they influence throughout Afghanistan.

And in which way does that relate to Pashtunistan?
1. The pakistani police/military could have made the tattoo to decrease the support of Taliban.
2. It was mention the guy was a foreigner, and he could have joined Taliban without them knowing him having the tattoo.
3. He could be an ordinary person who joined Taliban because of racism/mistreatment of Pakistan soldiers/police.
In any case, if anything it just support my argument on creating Pasthunistan.

That war wasn't religious motivated, but was for Independence and freedom. Another reason for creating Pashtunistan.

It is a small part of their culture. It just one part of the code out of ten(1/10). The difference is, people tend to forget the good deeds people are doing, and that why they only got known for revenge.
Do you know Marcus Luttrell? He was saved from Taliban by Pashtuns, because of Pashtunwali called Nanawatai.
The team could not establish consistent communication, however, other than for a period long enough to indicate that they were under attack. Three of the four team members were killed, and the only survivor, Marcus Luttrell, was left unconscious with a number of fractures, a broken back, numerous shrapnel wounds, and later a gunshot. He would soon regain consciousness and evade the pursuing enemy, with the help of local Pashtun villagers, who would eventually send an emissary to the nearest U.S. base to secure his safe release, and ultimately save his life.
If Pakistan dont like Pashtuns that much and think they are just revenge driven so called savages, then why dont you give the land back to Afghanistan? Pashtuns are called ethnic afghans, so I doubt the afghan government would mind to take back what originally was theirs.

If Pakistan dont like Pashtuns that much and think they are just revenge driven so called savages, then why dont you give the land back to Afghanistan? Pashtuns are called ethnic afghans, so I doubt the afghan government would mind to take back what originally was theirs.

It is already a safe haven for them. In the other hand when Pashtuns gets independence the extremism would fade away, the same reason I have stated earlier. And beside the only reason there is attacks on Pakistan is because of their military presence in Pashtunwkha, so once it gets Independence attacks will also stop.

The government would have easier to control the land, since they will be concentrating on it own people instead of everything else.

and you just don't join taliban without accepting their faith refer to my previous post on this topic.

How is rthis a reasoin for creating pashtunistan?

Have you been between them? Have you even taslked to them?
or you are just beliving on books?

I'll tell you a story.
Two pathan families got in a squabble, on family A were seven brothers, on family B, two.
B killed one of A.
A retaliated with killing both of B's.
B's cousines retaliated then A's cousins retaliated.
Fast forward 30 years and the youngest of A's(last survivour of original families) comes out of prison after 14 years and is whacked by B's kinsmen.
and the saga contnues.

Now you are trolling and putting words in my mouth. Where did I call themn revenge filled Savages?

and as for the border's matter, what is done, is done we will not officially give up our soil which is our's by virtue of an agreement with tribal elders.

Pakistan is there because of USA and many times we had tried to make peace but US always sabotages peace talks.

No, if you use force with these people, they will rip you apart

centralised govrn is not possible there.

I seriously doubt you have much knowledge about this subject.

We're going around in circles here. I'm still waiting for a reply for my previous post.

The tribes of FATA (mostly Pashtun), mainly support the Pakistani government, and desire more autonomy, but not full independence. Nearly nine out every ten people in FATA oppose the U.S. military pursuing al-Qaeda and the Taliban in their region. Nearly 70 percent of FATA residents instead want the Pakistani military alone to fight Taliban and al-Qaeda militants in the tribal areas. For example, they demand to be considered a full province with more autonomous powers that can't be overruled by federal control, yet stop short of calling for independence.

Unemployment is very high in FATA, with only 20 percent of respondents in our survey saying they were working full-time. Indeed, lack of jobs was chosen as the most important problem in the region by 95 percent of those surveyed. This was closely followed by lack of schools, good roads and security, poor health care and corruption of local official officials. Lesser problems to be addressed in descending order of importance were: drone attacks, Taliban and foreign fighters and problems involving refugees.

These do not require the establishment of an independent state to solve, these are problems that are common throughout Pakistan and Afghanistan. It's no panacea or silver bullet that an independent state will miraculously spring up economic growth if corruption and poor governance is endemic throughout the entire bureacracy, Pashtun or non-Pashtun.

Deleted several posts making emotional attacks on other users thus throwing the topic into off-topic territory. Continue from this point on and remember that true debaters know when Appeals to Emotion get too far. At that point, you lose yourself and suddenly stop using logic to back up your arguments. I ain't having none of that negative, derailing crap in here.

How was my post an "emotional attack?"