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Forums → WEPR → McCain or Obama
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- 609 Replies
Making welfare harder to "abuse" won't solve any problems. Those who want that money will just be screwed.
If you want your stopgap measure to save the people who need the money until they get a new job then require the people who receive the money to show that they are in fact searching for a new job or training to become skilled in one. Those who just want the money rather then need it can take a second job, or work longer hours, they have options available to them to get more money while welfare is for the people who don't have those options.
P.S. You don't need money to be happy, thinking that you do it unhealthy.
P.S. You don't need money to be happy, thinking that you do it unhealthy.
Right I can live without food >_>
I think you need money to go to the movies, to go out and eat, to have nice clothes, medical care, nice house, nice car?
I know, material doesn't bring happiness, but you'd feel quite bad having crappy things while everyone else has "nice " things. I know, material doesn't bring happiness.
Thing is, everything you do is based on money. Although its not money that directly gives you enjoyment, but remember this...money is lets you do stuff :O
I'd argue that material goods such as an Ipod wont bring you any happiness, but thats not the only thing money buys!
Say I want to travel? How do I do it without money.
A life on minimum wage becomes a life where you have to be stressed because of limited money and having to live at your 1 bedroom apartment with few kids.
Seriously, you need money to do ANYTHING! Except of course go walk outside and talk, but of course your not going to go outside without clothes, or a hungry mouth...
"Sell a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish, and you ruin a wonderful business opportunity."Um, no, I don't get my quotes from Carl Marx, and I quoted that correctly. The quote I used was this:
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
Welfare is a stop gap measure. We all know that. However, it's a necessary measure because if you need 18 months to train somebody so that they can survive on their own, what will they do for those 18 months? Welfare (theoretically) allows for people to take the time to find other jobs or be trained for a job. Is it a perfect system? No, but at it's heart the concept is sound, it just needs some tweaks to get it working properly.Well, my thing is, if you're going to have a welfare system, set it up so that when they get the financial help, they can also learn a trade, so that they could get off welfare and not come back. The problem is, too many people live off welfare permanently, and they could be helped if they could just get a decent job.
Well, my thing is, if you're going to have a welfare system, set it up so that when they get the financial help, they can also learn a trade, so that they could get off welfare and not come back. The problem is, too many people live off welfare permanently, and they could be helped if they could just get a decent job.
That's a problem that needs to be addressed, but taking away the safety net from the people that need it isn't the way to solve the problem. If it weren't for welfare we'd probably see more crime, as I've said though the system isn't perfect and does need work.
Right I can live without food >_>
I think you need money to go to the movies, to go out and eat, to have nice clothes, medical care, nice house, nice car?
Having a nice house, nice car, nice clothes, medical care, going out to eat, and going to the movies aren't prerequisites of having a happy life and fulfilling life. My point is that you don't need ridiculous sums of money to be happy. Read something like The Dharma Bums to see a good example. But honestly buying things to make you happy isn't real happiness, all you need are good people to be around, and if you can't find people that can't have fun without spending large sums of money then you have bigger problems to worry about =P
@Agent,
Where did you get that quote from then? It seems very similar to Karl Marx's. If its not his then I'm going to assume its a cheap ripoff.
@Shark,
So do you think those who abuse the system have large sums of money that they throw away in the first place?
Oh yes all you need to have fun is good people. I suppose good people don't wear clothes, eat or have any interests do something new? Seriously you can't be talking all day. While I can have fun with a limited income. I'm pretty sure the rich guy has a lot more then I ever can.
Mm, what is it of the system that needs to be fixed anyways?
So do you think those who abuse the system have large sums of money that they throw away in the first place?
No, but if they're abusing the system that means that they're taking from it without the need to do so or taking while not attempting to improve their own lives. Both of those are bad things as in one case you're stealing when you do have a means to improve your life already and in the other you're just being a drain on society.
Oh yes all you need to have fun is good people. I suppose good people don't wear clothes, eat or have any interests do something new? Seriously you can't be talking all day. While I can have fun with a limited income. I'm pretty sure the rich guy has a lot more then I ever can.
You're using a straw man argument. It's physically impossible to live with no material wealth at your disposal, let alone live happily. But it is possible to not only live, but be happy while living on a lower income. Arguing that money equates to happiness is fine and all, but there are many other things that can make you happy that are much easier to get then money (and in some cases even generate money for you).
Mm, what is it of the system that needs to be fixed anyways?
Welfare needs to be made so that people cannot live off it for large periods of time (i.e. years at a time). There has to be incentive to leave the program and reenter the workforce, and if it's not possible for the individual to do so, then it needs to provide a route by which the person can learn a trade and then reenter the work force.
Medicare is prone to fraud, and those loopholes that people use to steal millions from US taxpayers each year need to be closed. We need to stop letting corrupt individuals use dead doctors identifications to fill their own pockets.
There's going to be problems with any system that we make, but we need to strive to reduce the ones that are present, so that we don't lose so much money to corruption.
Where did you get that quote from then? It seems very similar to Karl Marx's. If its not his then I'm going to assume its a cheap ripoff.
Sorry, missed this, the original quote
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime
is an old Chinese proverb(Lao Tzu).
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you lose a wonderful business opportunity
on the other hand I'm less familiar with, though when I think of it I always think of Groucho Marx.
That's a real toughie.
I really don't like either of them particularly.
Is Nader running this time?
C:
My best friend's wife is a case worker for kids with, lets say issues, and she has a lot of horror stories about parents abusing the system, however, she also says that without the programs the government has these familes would b on the street, would that make for a better soceity for anyone?
I'm not saying the programs are perfect and I know that they get abused but they still need to be there. I don't think that illegal aliens have rights for government money, but abuse by some shouldn't prohibit those who truely are in need from recieving service.
A complete retooling of the system needs to take place really. A focus should be created toward preventitive measures rather then after the fact assistance. Create systems that assist "at risk" familes from ever needing the support. Free education, universal healthcare, substidized housing, these are all things that need to take place and are happening in much of the "developed" world. These are things that the democratic party stands for, which is, in part, why i'm very pro democratic party.
McCain contradicts himself! He says he would vote against things such as increased taxes, yet as a Senator he voted for those bills! Also, Obama will do more for America. But I'm Canadian so it does'nt matter much to me.
im not american so dont judge me, but i like Obama better, he seems much smarter and to generally care about what hes doing, mcCain just kinda creeps me out, maybe if he didnt have white hair?
It honestly feels as though many young people are voting for Obama just because he is young, and black, and they want to see what will happen, and the old people are just voting McCain because he is old, and white.
:/
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