ForumsWEPR[nec]Christianity vs Atheism

3094 567538
kiddslayer12
offline
kiddslayer12
70 posts
Nomad

I am a christian, i and i strongly belive in my lord jesus christ, and i also belive that if you belive in him and except him as your savior, u will go to heaven. and i also believe that he created the world, not the big bang, or that we came from stupid apes.

  • 3,094 Replies
HiddenDistance
offline
HiddenDistance
1,310 posts
Peasant

Well I do think that this forum is over run by atheists so its really hard to debate when you are on the disadvantage.


If you're a person that considers yourself at a disadvantage purely because you are outnumbered, that doesn't speak of confidence for your point of view. I've never thought of being outnumbered as a bad thing (and as an atheist, the numbers are rarely in my favour) - there's just more arguments to refute.

And you say 'over run' as if it's a bad thing. Doubtlessly, you'd appreciate it if I referred to the religious population as an 'infestation'.
BigP08
offline
BigP08
1,455 posts
Shepherd

then look at how the Right Wing is attacking Obama now.

The right wing is not Christianity; that is a group of people, some that happen to be of the same religion, stating (or shouting and screaming, but still not killing) their viewpoint, which is very different from warfare.

Or how we handled 9-11.

We, as in, America? So because of what the government decided to do about a terrorist attack, Christians in general started a war in Iraq? I think not, but if you really believe this, I doubt much I could say would change your mind.

Or the entire George W. Bush term.

Bush is one man, and I'm assuming you just believe he's incompetent. That's not evil, and even if it was, that's still not a war.

But these people (on BOTH sides) do exist.

I had no idea this was political. A lot of the "wars" you listed were things you believed to be evil because of your political standpoint. No offense, but you need to get your head out of the clouds before you can judge people; none of those were even wars. So when you say:
Oh, and if you don't think Christians haven't started a war in a long time

You do not make me reconsider whether or not Christianity has started a war in a while, because:
A. You used stereotypes for those acts
B. You included your political opinion, which varies among every religious group
C. Those weren't wars

Do not be insulted, I am merely pointing out some inconsistencies and generalizations that I found rather offensive, and am suggesting that you re-revise yourself, if you've got a moment.
quakingphear
offline
quakingphear
410 posts
Peasant

Oh, and if you don't think Christians haven't started a war in a long time, then look at how the Right Wing is attacking Obama now. Or how we handled 9-11. Or the entire George W. Bush term


Well I think that is a bit broad. Not all Christians were complicit with these wars. Quite a few were opposed to it as well. And Colin Powell was lied to when he got intel on the WMD's and he was a part of Bush's cabinet. As for attacking Obama, there has rarely been unity between both parties in I don't know how long. I think most of the attacks are coming from the media(namely Fox in addition to their other crap)

What I was talking about was the scale of the Spanish Inquisition or the Crusades. It was wars in the name of Christianity, not just started by leaders that were coincidentally Christian but still caused by politics. Like Hitler. He was Christian, and started a war, but not all Christians participated in the Holocaust. And on that note Christians liberated the deathcamps. Well, not all of the Allies were Chrristian but you get my point.

I've looked at a lot of the main religions. The only ones that haven't started wars seem to be Rastafarians and Hindus. Rastafarians are relatively new though. Buddhists, Shintoists, Christians, Muslims, Jews, and Pagans have all started wars and done terrible things. But I won't deny that Christians have started more wars. Well, if I wanted to knit pick I'd say Pagans and polytheistic religions started more. The Romans, Vikings, Greeks, Macedonians, Mongols and quite a few others. And that was even before Christianity.
Kowboy
offline
Kowboy
50 posts
Nomad

quakingphear - As I stated earlier, not everyone is to blame in these discussions. Not all Christians or any religion are all good or all bad. Of course there are many people in history that have little to nothing to do with what we are discussing here. And please understand that my admiration and respect goes out to those who fight against such tragedies.


BigP - I cannot believe the amount of silliness that comes form your post.

First of all, not all wars include weapons, bombs, etc. There are wars against humanity, wars of words, Race wars, and so on. When Republican Reps. are using phrases like "The Great White Hope" coming to challenge Obama, that to me is a war against progression.

Also, let me state for a THIRD TIME that all Christians or any religion are not all to blame for the mistakes of the past.

And what do you think fuels political beliefs? Religion! Religion is the basis of any politicians platform. Why do you think there are few (if any) atheists in government? Religion has always been the backbone of a political parties agendas for centuries. The Catholic Church pays big money to the Republican Party to maintain certain laws, just like the NRA or Insurance companies or any other major system.

Also, I said Bush's TERM, not the man himself. But yes, he actually signed off on 2 wars. One of which should not have happened. And I don't know about you, but I think that massive incompetence in any high office is evil.

We have been discussing the Inquisiton, Crusades, and WW2, along with other major tragedies. These are not stereotypes. These are actual events that happened. The ones I mentioned were the most recent. I do not appreciate the patronizing from someone that cannot even vote yet when I have thousands of years of history backing me up. Billions of my people have been killed off and countless historical documents lost due to political decisions with a religious tendency behind it.

Is there a lot of good coming from Christianity? Of course!
But these examples I cited are examples of what happens when the wrong people gain those positions of power and use them for their own needs, all in the name of God.

quakingphear
offline
quakingphear
410 posts
Peasant

First of all, not all wars include weapons, bombs, etc. There are wars against humanity, wars of words, Race wars, and so on. When Republican Reps. are using phrases like "The Great White Hope" coming to challenge Obama, that to me is a war against progression.


I think you understand as well as I do, everything that is wrong with the term and connotation of "The Great White Hope" so I'm going to bypass the discussion we could have and say I totally agree.

quakingphear - As I stated earlier, not everyone is to blame in these discussions. Not all Christians or any religion are all good or all bad. Of course there are many people in history that have little to nothing to do with what we are discussing here. And please understand that my admiration and respect goes out to those who fight against such tragedies.


Sorry if it seemed like I was off topic. I thought mentioning the others was relevant just to put religions and wars into perspective. So I'm glad we agree.
Skyla
offline
Skyla
291 posts
Peasant

George Carlin was a legend.

I'm not going to bother reading all the posts to find out how a thread that was supposed to revolve around religion turned into politics, but I'll go with the flow.

First of all, not all wars include weapons, bombs, etc. There are wars against humanity, wars of words, Race wars, and so on. When Republican Reps. are using phrases like "The Great White Hope" coming to challenge Obama, that to me is a war against progression.


Americans LOVE to declare war. Not only do they declare war on nations (brown people, specifically seem to be their favorite,) but they also declare war on things going on in America. The government doesn't do anything about drugs, they just declare war on it. They don't do anything about racism, they declare war on racism. Americans declare war on everything, because they're good at it! 12 major wars in just 200 years? They're good at it because they get a lot of practice!

My favorite show just started, point will be made at a later date :P
Moabarmorgamer
offline
Moabarmorgamer
8,570 posts
Nomad

I am a christian, i and i strongly belive in my lord jesus christ, and i also belive that if you belive in him and except him as your savior, u will go to heaven. and i also believe that he created the world, not the big bang, or that we came from stupid apes

All right. Let me say now that I am an agnostic, but I am perfectly happy to let you rest assured in your beliefs. And I will also say that I do not intend to be mean, just give in my two cents.
I'll break what you said into bits, and then I will disprove them. But I remind you that anything I say from here on out is for the sake of argument only, to show you the reason of the other side. And I am sorry for being blunt(because I will be).

First of all, let me say that your elocution is absolutely dreadful. It's believe, accept, you, and I. If you want someone to take you seriously, don't type like an idiot.
Next, here is part of what you said.
and i also believe that he created the world, not the big bang

Then where did God come from? I know you're going to spout some crap about him being here before time itself, and creating the world. But that still does not answer the question; where did he come from? He was always here, that's Christian belief. And that right there is why I am not a Christian, and do not believe in the one true god.
or that we came from stupid apes.

*sigh*. Why does everyone think that atheists are saying we came from apes? Let me clarify.
We did not come from apes, and no one ever said we did. Whoever said we came from apes is wrong.
All right? Now I know you're going to say that I just said I was wrong, but that's not true. We did not come from apes. Rather, the ape and the human both came from the same ancestor, a prehistoric creature. And let me also say that while the intelligence of the human far outweighs that of the ape, the ape is one of the most intelligent creatures in the animal kingdom.
BigP08
offline
BigP08
1,455 posts
Shepherd

BigP - I cannot believe the amount of silliness that comes form your post.

Do you mean "from my post"? That's a pretty silly typo.
Don't sling insults directed at a person without spellcheck.
First of all, not all wars include weapons, bombs, etc. There are wars against humanity, wars of words, Race wars, and so on. When Republican Reps. are using phrases like "The Great White Hope" coming to challenge Obama, that to me is a war against progression.

Republicans, not Christians. You see no silliness in this? This is a political standpoint, not a unified religious doctrine. Just because some Republicans are Christians and some Republican Reps are using phrasees like "The Great White Hope" doesn't suddenly mean all Christians are racist, evil, and soldiers in invisible warfare.
Also, let me state for a THIRD TIME that all Christians or any religion are not all to blame for the mistakes of the past.

You were clear on that point, but you also stated that the religion is to blame because of some Christian's actions. That's simply not true. You're saying that one Christian's actions make a religion evil, yet a religion doesn't necessarily make a person evil? There's a flaw here.
And what do you think fuels political beliefs? Religion! Religion is the basis of any politicians platform. Why do you think there are few (if any) atheists in government? Religion has always been the backbone of a political parties agendas for centuries. The Catholic Church pays big money to the Republican Party to maintain certain laws, just like the NRA or Insurance companies or any other major system.

But there is too much diversity of political beliefs under any religion to be able to blame politics on religion. Everyone in my exact Christian denomination has very unique views (even one Nadar fan I met). It doesn't necessarily mean that Republican = Christian.
Also, I said Bush's TERM, not the man himself. But yes, he actually signed off on 2 wars. One of which should not have happened. And I don't know about you, but I think that massive incompetence in any high office is evil.

If you meant the wars in Bush's term, why didn't you say so? You said Bush's TERM. Many things happened in Bush's term. Everyone has a different opinion of what incompetence is, but it certainly isn't evil. Maybe evil things can grow out of it, but the incompetent person isn't evil; just incompetent.
We have been discussing the Inquisiton, Crusades, and WW2, along with other major tragedies. These are not stereotypes. These are actual events that happened. The ones I mentioned were the most recent. I do not appreciate the patronizing from someone that cannot even vote yet when I have thousands of years of history backing me up. Billions of my people have been killed off and countless historical documents lost due to political decisions with a religious tendency behind it.

Wow. First of all, I never denied that Christianity has done bad things before, and that Christians do bad things too. But much like you can't judge people based on their religion, you can't judge religion based on what some of the people of it do, even if they twist interpretations and use their religion to justify their actions. That doesn't make the religion evil, only the people who do the acts. If you were trying to communicate that anyway, then these aren't examples of Christianity starting wars, only Christians.
Second of all, we come here to discuss world events, politics, religion, etc. My first thought when discussing with somebody of a different age than me isn't that they are automatically superior or inferior to me. I just think I should see what they have to say, even if they can't vote. It's insulting and immature to go after someone's age rather than the issue at hand.
Third of all, you've got thousands of years of history, but I was telling you that you haven't persuaded me that wars NOWADAYS were caused by Christians. All you did was remind me of some things Republicans did that YOU don't agree with. In politics, I don't think anybody can really decide what's good and evil if there's but a single person arguing against it.

If you were talking about "invisible" warfare, your first post did make some sense, but I still don't understand why you can blame an entire religion, even if not the followers, but an entire religion based on what some Christians did.
uberdead49
offline
uberdead49
59 posts
Nomad

i believe that no true religion is right or wrong im not atheist but i have to say its ones beliefes its what guides them to there dignity. no one should doubt anothers beliefs just let them do what they want. its not right for one to say anotherrs wrong.

Flippin3500
offline
Flippin3500
2,581 posts
Shepherd

As an atheist I respect other people's beliefs. I do not respect, however, when people tell me I should be punished for believing otherwise.

thisisnotanalt
offline
thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Farmer

OMGGGGGG

*hugs thread*

I hope it comes back from the dead 4evar.

Flippin3500
offline
Flippin3500
2,581 posts
Shepherd

This was dead?

Lieutenut
offline
Lieutenut
1,251 posts
Nomad

This was dead?


lmfao. Yes, the last date before you revived it is August 29th xD
Flippin3500
offline
Flippin3500
2,581 posts
Shepherd

Oh, I could've sworn it said Sep. 29. I looked it up on DDX's thread search. Well anyways, back to the discussion.

windshift
offline
windshift
320 posts
Nomad

As an atheist I respect other people's beliefs. I do not respect, however, when people tell me I should be punished for believing otherwise.

Atheists don't stop other people's beliefs. What I find hard to believe is that if I don't believe in God I am damned to hell just like a rapist or murderer. I can't care less if a Christian is Christian but they all have the thought running through their mind that they must convert everyone and if you aren't in the same religion as them you are damned.

Did you know that there is a tiny percent that you may have picked the right religion? Seems like gambling to me.

Showing 1501-1515 of 3094