I am a christian, i and i strongly belive in my lord jesus christ, and i also belive that if you belive in him and except him as your savior, u will go to heaven. and i also believe that he created the world, not the big bang, or that we came from stupid apes.
Atheists do have a God. They worship themselves and their own desires. They religiously (hint-hint) deny that there is any religion. As for the "where's the proof" crowd, did a great ape walk up to you and say "you're me ten million years from now"? Finally, even if you do believe that humans evolved from chimpanzees, where did the matter from which those monkeys came from come from. Somebody had to start it, somewhere, somehow. Basic physics, people. You can't make something from nothing.
And this is where the thought well hey something HAD to be here first comes from. God (I think) or well something that we don't know about yet (intelligent particles, dark matter, ect.)
however the funny thing is that neither side has proof of his existence or non existence for that matter.
What we can do however, is work with probability - which scientifically, is on the side of the atheists.
genius's
That should be geniuses.
Atheists do have a God. They worship themselves and their own desires. They religiously (hint-hint) deny that there is any religion.
That couldn't be more incorrect. There is nothing religious about the scientific method. There are ideas, some get discarded, some accepted. Those ideas sometime change, or are corrected, or are later discarded. Religion does not change in this fashion. It's holy law, and sacred, and correct, no matter what.
As for the "where's the proof" crowd, did a great ape walk up to you and say "you're me ten million years from now"? Finally, even if you do believe that humans evolved from chimpanzees, where did the matter from which those monkeys came from come from. Somebody had to start it, somewhere, somehow. Basic physics, people. You can't make something from nothing.
So you think because we haven't completely, 100% discovered *everything* in the universe, we should call that mystery 'god' and call it quits? That's not a very good argument for the existence of a creator.
Again, we didn't used to know what lightning & thunder were. Funny that there used to be gods for that sort of thing. Today, we understand that lightning and thunder are a natural product of weather systems. Just because we don't have an explanation for something right this second, does not automatically mean that 'god' or a 'creator' or anything of the sort is a better explanation then simply:
That couldn't be more incorrect. There is nothing religious about the scientific method. There are ideas, some get discarded, some accepted. Those ideas sometime change, or are corrected, or are later discarded. Religion does not change in this fashion. It's holy law, and sacred, and correct, no matter what.
I think it was some form of sarcasm. I could be wrong, but it makes absolutely no sense to me either.
"We don't know. Yet."
I agree on one level. I can't speak for every Christian, but I've always thought that even about events I believe to be the work of God. I just add on the beginning, "I believe that it is God. I don't know. Yet."
By the same token as long as there's people who believe there is no God this argument will continue. because for some strange reason the belief there is no god seems to give people an illusion that they are the only ones that are right.
Read the last part of my post smartass.
Atheists do have a God. They worship themselves and their own desires.
You're thinking of a Narcissist not an Atheist.
As for the "where's the proof" crowd, did a great ape walk up to you and say "you're me ten million years from now"?
Who says you have to believe that we came from apes if we ask for the proof, i ask people for their proof in the existence of god that is other than the bible. Its a humans nature to be curious and question what we know that's how we improve upon our knowledge.
where did the matter from which those monkeys came from come from.
Thats the answer that we're all looking for HD said "So you think because we haven't completely, 100% discovered *everything* in the universe, we should call that mystery 'god' and call it quits?" You see not all of us out here in TV land decided to just give up when it took some effort, we decided that there had to be a better answer than some mystical being that only has an old book for his/her legacy.
Atheists do have a God. They worship themselves and their own desires. They religiously (hint-hint) deny that there is any religion. As for the "where's the proof" crowd, did a great ape walk up to you and say "you're me ten million years from now"? Finally, even if you do believe that humans evolved from chimpanzees, where did the matter from which those monkeys came from come from. Somebody had to start it, somewhere, somehow. Basic physics, people. You can't make something from nothing.
lol You're full of rubbish - There is scientific evidence that is better off being called proof that says that 98% of our genes are apes, 50% a bananas and 40% Tomato, so go ahead and use that dull and rediculous arguement because jesus didn't come up to you saying 'you are forgiven' or 'go with God, my friends', so as far as I am concerned you can shove that in now
I'm honestly amazed that this thread is still continuing. I've been away from the site for almost 9 monthes and even then I was amzed this thread is continuing.
I remember this thread starting. At the time I was atheist. I fought neutrally for both sides presenting arguements for the historical and religous sides of the argument. I even saw the thread slow in popularity because the same arguments were recycled over and over again.
The reality that I believe that most users of this site fail to see is that... A.) There is always going to be this argument until (in my belief) that Jesus returns. Which by the way, I was a former atheist. For those that know the moderator Strop, he and I were deeply involved in this debate for a while. So he saw both sides of me in this thread.
B.) No one will agree to what anyone in opposition of there belief says. No matter how poignant the case or historical basis it is.
C.) Everyone who is a christian on this site should remember that you can bring a horse to water but you cannot make them drink.
D.) Everyone who is an atheist on this site, yes I know who Appollonius Di was. Yes the easter story is exactly the same. Yes I know that it was only popularized by undergound officials as motivation against the Roman leadership and it was also told later as Jesus. But also remember, there is only factual evidence of Jesus walking the earth in multiple regions of the middle east and Asia minor.
Christians and atheist are going to stand on both sides of the fence and scream until your hearts content about who's wrong and why. But we all want the same thing. Happiness without oppression. Freedom of religion, speech, and to love whoever we want. I hear the argument,"don't judge me because your eligoin says this, this, and that." If someone truly follows what Jesus taught, then instead of arguing with you, they'll talk to you, try to understand, and offer what they believe the solution is. And if you don't agree, then they'll pray for you.
Religion is a personal choice and nobody has the right to tell anyone else what they should believe in. I also believe that the title of this thread is wrong for one specific reason: Atheism is not specifically connected to Christianity. Atheism is not believing in any faith not specifically Christianity. It really irritates me that people can't set aside thier trivial differences and accept the fact that we are all human beings no matter our beliefs. Personally I'm an agnostic, I think maybe there's a religion out there that might be true. I also think that there a far too many religions, most claiming to be the one true faith, for any of them to be right. It seems that all religions just serve to create more tensions in the world. People, alot of the time, seem to use religion as a way to justify hatred. Hatred of those who don't share their, beliefs, hatred of those who don't share thier culture, hatred of people who live, breath, bleed, and feel emotion, just as they do.
I know that was long winded, but I just want everyone to see the redundence "of arguing with a brick wall." Just be kind and respectfull to each other without judgment. Trust me, it works.
I am a christian, and i strongly belive in the holy trinity and the concept of haven and hell. But hay if you don´t belive all your gambling is your eternal soul.
I guess I'm the eternal inbetween. I believe in the concept on a higher power or deity that controls everything, however I do not believe in the concept of heaven or hell. Which is why I say we're all going to hell anyway, because that means there is no heaven and no opposite or 'hell'. I call hell the afterlife, not one or the other, just one afterlife. The bible, IMO, was written by a bunch of semi-sane, infinitely wise, militaristic skitzophrenics. Basically, it is not history in actuality but much of it probably happened and was exagerated, such as much of the old testament, but others such as Noahs' Ark or Jonah and the Whale, probably didn't happen.
However, I believe in the concept of evolution and science. And that everything (besides ghosts) has a logical meaning behind it. We didn't evolve from apes however, but we are the combination of apes and monkeys, such as chimps are. Which is why somewhere down the line either an ape got smaller or a monkey got bigger or both, and the breeded over eons to create a common ancestor to humans and chimps.
So, in the end, I have respect for 'em both, but do not like either. As they are both too 'God doesn't exist' or 'God does exist and your going to hell', they are both too sure of themselves and not willing to make a compromise, or look at the others belief system.
Err...apes and monkeys are quite different, and can't interbreed. Don't know where your idea of evolution is coming from, but it's certainly not mainstream.
Err...apes and monkeys are quite different, and can't interbreed. Don't know where your idea of evolution is coming from, but it's certainly not mainstream.
That is what evolution is, change. At some point down the line something happened because we're to big to be monkeys, but to small to be apes. So, I may not be right, but something along those lines happened. Besides, I used that for the 'both' one, not one or the other.
