The actual problem with incest is the fact that humans have a vast array of recessive gene defects and disorders which rarely show up in a diverse group (see here for details). Inbreeding in a single family maximizes the potential for these genes to be expressed by the offspring.
The actual problem with incest is the fact that humans have a vast array of recessive gene defects and disorders which rarely show up in a diverse group. Inbreeding in a single family maximizes the potential for these genes to be expressed by the offspring.
Precisely. And if you are wondering how that potential is maximized, it is because the genetic material in the family is not renewed.
Of course that is mostly the case with close family members and relatives. The "further" away the relative is on the family tree, the fewer the chances of genetic defects, but suffice to say it is still dangerous.
Now, that we are done on the medical side, let's consider the legal perspective. In most civilised countries, there is no law prohibiting the closer relationships of relatives to some degree (as far as I remember. If that has changed, please excuse me for the misinformation). That law is in most countries applicable on any case of family members as closely related as cousins.
Now, like 09philj said, consenting adults obviously have the right to choose and the law has evolved to be less oppressive than before, so it is no mystery that there is nothing prohibiting the relationship and/or sexual intercourse of close family members.
As for the ethical side, that runs a bit deeper. In my humble opinion, it is unethical and unacceptable to encourage or participate in any relationship with the possibility of genetically defective offspring. But what happens in cases that have no such possibility? Like cases of fertility of the one, or both parties for example? Can that be considered moral? Moreover, is there truly any bound there?
i dont get why its so wrong. come on, not everybody wants children. if 2 people know they arent gonna be parents then why cant they just be together regardless of their blood? if im not wrong, i dont think theres a law that prevents people with genetical diseases to have children, and the odds for the children in that case to get the disease are higher.
people should start to give arguments that are actually relevant to the topic. like how homosexuality is wrong because no children can be make... really?
when 2 adults want to, they should have sex regardless of their status (of course unless they are already in a relationship and the act would hurt the person)
people should start to give arguments that are actually relevant to the topic.
That's what we are doing, the topic is broad enough to allow for a wide range of responses.
when 2 adults want to, they should have sex regardless of their status (of course unless they are already in a relationship and the act would hurt the person)
So you are talking about the case where no genetically deffective offspring can be produced. Well, this is one view and I tend to agree with you somewhat.
i dont think theres a law that prevents people with genetical diseases to have children, and the odds for the children in that case to get the disease are higher.
There is no law, yes, as far as I remember, but is it moral? a relationship with the possibility of children suffering from the conditions stated above? How?
@thebluerabbit As Doombreed said, the discussion has been quite relevant so far. The question in the OP was, "Why does society stigmatize incest?". Not whether there are or should be laws against it.
As addressed sufficiently so far, there is the fact that incest aggravates the issue of genetic defects. We know this relatively well because incest was common for example among royal families, or in small remote villages. The effects it tends to have on offsprings have affected the view people have of incest in general over time: as something immoral, whether offsprings there be or not. Besides, knowing that birth control was not really that great back then, we can easily understand that the issue of incest without offsprings is comparatively recent. Finally a strong factor contributing to the negative image of incest to the public is that often, cases of incest within families in the strict sense involve abuse.
Apart from that, there is to many people a kind of natural disgust towards the idea of sexual relationships with very close kin; it just feels wrong. Of course you project your view also on others and so you tend to be appalled by people engaging in incestuous relationships.
All these are reasons why society stigmatizes incest.
when 2 adults want to, they should have sex regardless of their status (of course unless they are already in a relationship and the act would hurt the person)
It is probably not what you intended to say; but just as a sidenote, it would seem hypocritical to me to say that incest should be legal but cheating illegal.
when 2 adults want to, they should have sex regardless of their status [...]
No. If two such people want to do that, they should wait for a socially acceptable opportunity and go somewhere private, and not do it on my *******d carpet! Just who do these **********ing idiots think they are?!? WHAT THE **********!!!!!!1! Hypothetically speaking, of course.
It is probably not what you intended to say; but just as a sidenote, it would seem hypocritical to me to say that incest should be legal but cheating illegal.
Cheating emotionally hurts someone as he/she loses a beloved person. It is not the offended party's choice. It would actually not be that hypocritical. The cases of incest being discussed right at this instance are very specific, especially regarding consent.
Of course personally I am against the illegalization of any of the two. The law is a set of rules, that define acceptable sociable behavior, by protecting the rights and establishing the obligations of every member of the society (hence the word "sociopath" for someone who suffers from antisocial personality disorder i.e. frequently ignores or violates the rights of the others). As such, there are areas of people's lives that it cannot or should not intervene.
That's what we are doing, the topic is broad enough to allow for a wide range of responses.
i was talking about the general public.
There is no law, yes, as far as I remember, but is it moral? a relationship with the possibility of children suffering from the conditions stated above? How?
i never said its moral. but the fact those laws exist with one excuse while others do not exist even though that excuse works better for them is what my point was about.
It is probably not what you intended to say; but just as a sidenote, it would seem hypocritical to me to say that incest should be legal but cheating illegal.
i guess i wasnt clear enough. i pointed at law to show how hypocritical it is and thats it. i didnt say that cheating should be illegal. cheating is morally wrong cause it actually hurts a person directly related to the relationship while incest should be none of anyones business who isnt in the relationship.
No. If two such people want to do that, they should wait for a socially acceptable opportunity and go somewhere private, and not do it on my *******d carpet! Just who do these **********ing idiots think they are?!? WHAT THE **********!!!!!!1! Hypothetically speaking, of course.
umm... was this like sarcasm? i dont get sarcasm...
@FishPreferred Hypothetical or not, ranting about something obviously implied seems a bit uncalled-for. Or did you just need to contradict someone?
Cheating emotionally hurts someone as he/she loses a beloved person. It is not the offended party's choice. It would actually not be that hypocritical. The cases of incest being discussed right at this instance are very specific, especially regarding consent.
What I meant is that in both cases you have a potentially consenting act which can potentially hurt someone other. The problem is not the act itself, but the circumstances, and possibly your prejudices (which is why I addressed it). But maybe that's just me wanting to contradict someone :P
What I meant is that in both cases you have a potentially consenting act which can potentially hurt someone other. The problem is not the act itself, but the circumstances, and possibly your prejudices (which is why I addressed it). But maybe that's just me wanting to contradict someone :P
I got it. I am just saying that incest being legal and cheating being illegal may not be as hypocritical as it seems
But those "potentially"s right there...well, they make a lot of difference
When it comes to consent, one is illegal and with a good reason (basically abuse) and the other is not. As for an incestuous relationship hurting someone, I suppose you don't mean just the potentially genetically deffective offspring. Many family members or close friends and acquaintances would be shocked (especially if the circumstances or the family's prejudices allow it, like you suggested) and in the end, one cannot possibly blame them for that...it all depends on the values one was raised with and not everyone in a family can accept everything.
So, in conclusion, yes, an incestuous relationship (even if it's not a relationship) has the potential to hurt someone...some people actually...people possibly very close to the parties being discussed.
When it comes to consent, one is illegal and with a good reason (basically abuse) and the other is not. As for an incestuous relationship hurting someone, I suppose you don't mean just the potentially genetically deffective offspring. Many family members or close friends and acquaintances would be shocked (especially if the circumstances or the family's prejudices allow it, like you suggested) and in the end, one cannot possibly blame them for that...it all depends on the values one was raised with and not everyone in a family can accept everything.
So, in conclusion, yes, an incestuous relationship (even if it's not a relationship) has the potential to hurt someone...some people actually...people possibly very close to the parties being discussed.
any relationship could hurt someone. homosexual, a relationship between people of different races and even a totally regular relationship between 2 people who have families who just dont like each other. theres a difference between that and actually cheating on a person. and yeah, by cheating this means without the other person knowing. if that other person allowes it, then if he gets hurt its his responsibility.
Topic from OP: Why does society stigmatizes incest? What's so bad about it? Is it okay or should it be condemned? Post your opinions below.
My answer:
Why is it taboo?
It's related to how people don't see the people they grow up with in a sexual way, a lot of the time your bestfriend you will not see them in a sexual (or at least not as much compared to others) which leads people to believe something is wrong with said person.
What's so bad about it?
Physically: What FishPreferred said.
Emotionally: I'll cover that next.
Is it okay or should it be condemned?
Take these words into consideration "A united world begins with a united family.".
If the siblings were to divorce or something goes wrong while they are in a sexual relationship it will cause a rift in the family(kin or extended as well). You can go ahead and pretend that they 'can' get along because it does happen in real life but the reality is, it isn't the common to say "I broke your heart; let's be friends". Sometimes there are very good reasons to separate and still be friends but this is rarely the case which is the sad truth. My point is that a division between the two siblings in a sexual relationship will cause an even deeper rift in the family thus destroying the unity within the family.
What say you?
Oh and also I can imagine their children killing themselves. I'm actually being really serious about this, people do and have killed themselves for reasons like this, for example the youngest girl to ever give birth; her child killed himself. She had another at 16, he also killed himself. If the age of your mother is enough then well I don't see why this couldn't be. This will also cause a pretty big rift in your family but since we're sort of just ignoring the "kids" part of Insect I will imagine responses go to the above paragraph.
