Forums → WEPR → Abortion
| 1508 | 314925 |
What my peers here think?
I would like to try and avoid a buch of rabid Catholics and Christians falling back only on the religious reasons and what have you. However, I do not see how that can be dodged.
My view? I'm for it. If a woman wants to get one, it is her choice. Some people seem to act like if one woman gets an abortion, it means that all the rest have to. If the child in question is not yours, butt out.
Also, on a lighter note, I say that abortions should be allowed when kids are up to 18 years old. That would solve a lot of headaches, eh?
- 1,508 Replies
If you made any effort to understand what I am trying to explain this would be much easier. As it is, I either must assume you have reading difficulties or are just displaying a juvenile refusal to think critically.
I wanted to mention one other thing, I wasn't debating the ethical issues of abortion, I was debating that the ends of masturbation aren't the ends of abortion.
You can quote dictionary sites all you like, it doesn't change the foundation of your argument, which I have found to be quite unsound
First of all Merriam-Webster diction isn't just "some" site. Secondly if only you can find my argument unsound, why should I believe you. You didn't even bother to support your argument with any evidence. Third of all the definition of abortion is termination of a pregnancy. Guess what masturbation isn't, a termination of a pregnancy. Banning abortion wouldn't mean banning condoms, or pulling out, or masturbation, it would mean banning the termination of pregnancies. Abortion does not equal masturbation. The you'd have to ban masturbation in order to ban abortion argument holds no water. You have to have a pregnancy to terminate it. Masturbation doesn't cause pregnancies.
In the sperm's case, they rely on the fertilisation of the ovum. In the fetus' case, they rely on the circulatory and respiratory system of the mother to survive and develop.
The sperm requires a testicle to survive and develop. A fetus requires an embryo which requires a female human. That embryo also requires an ovum and a sperm. Tire isn't a car, but a car requires tires. A sperm isn't not a fetus, but a fetus requires sperm. The termination of a tire does not equal the destruction of a car. The termination of a sperm does not equal the destruction of a fetus. Masturbation is not abortion. Masturbation is not abortion. It doesn't matter what you think of abortion and who you think should or shouldn't have them, masturbation isn't abortion. Banning abortion wouldn't require the banning of masturbation.
I'm not debating whether or not abortion is ethical based on the status of a fetus. I've been debating two things. One; the ends of abortion aren't the ends of masturbation and two; banning abortion wouldn't require banning masturbation.
Banning abortion wouldn't mean banning condoms, or pulling out, or masturbation, it would mean banning the termination of pregnancies
WE ALL KNOW THIS
We are TRYINT to tell you that both end the potential life, so abortion should be legal. You have not givin any reason that it should be banned, just reasons you don't like it, and most of them are ethical...
Abortions hold the risk of death, in extreme cases. In this case, the gun is abortion. You don't know if it's actually loaded or not, but it certainly could be. Way to not be able to interpret analogies. >.>
wow.... abortions don't kill the mother. There might have maybe been 2 deaths tops from the process. Your not gambling your life with a abortion. uber fail
I will have to agree with reton8 on masturbation and abortions. You don't need to ban masturbation if you want to ban abortions.
More like 68,0000 die annually. And are you a total idiot? It seems you can't comprehend what I'm saying and that I'll have to spell it out for you: Abortions have the risk of killing the mother. Was that clear enough or do I have to go in detail about how they kill the fetus to, because apparently you can't understand that. I'm not going to waste time posting axiomatic things such as "ABORTIONS KILL FETUSES!"
More like 68,0000 die annually. And are you a total idiot? It seems you can't comprehend what I'm saying and that I'll have to spell it out for you: Abortions have the risk of killing the mother. Was that clear enough or do I have to go in detail about how they kill the fetus to, because apparently you can't understand that. I'm not going to waste time posting axiomatic things such as "ABORTIONS KILL FETUSES!"
Link, preferably to a credible place...
WE ALL KNOW THIS
We are TRYINT to tell you that both end the potential life, so abortion should be legal. You have not givin any reason that it should be banned, just reasons you don't like it, and most of them are ethical...
I'm 100% against it because I believe it's the killing of an unborn, yet still perfectly viable human.
Here are most the arguments basically saying masturbation basically has the same ends as abortion and hence if abortion is banned so should masturbation. I'm saying the two are not comparable.
Pg.114
Only in that a fetus is made up of genetic material that has the potential for life, the same as sperm, should masturbating be illegal because it kills sperm?
They are not the same. The argument I've been trying to point out.
Pg. 114
Exactly, it [Masturbation] stops her from getting pregnant which stops her from having a baby, therefor it kills a baby.
Also mutual masturbation(the fancy term for it) can.
Whoa! the one below is from you 314d1. Your saying masturbation has the same effects as abortion on the top of pg. 115
Ya it did.... He is saying that masterbation has the same affects. A normal man can continue to make sperm and a normal woman can continue to get pregnant, so both have the affect of not making a baby, but we may be able to gain some scientific knolage from abortion...
And now look. Now your saying.
WE ALL KNOW THIS
We are TRYINT to tell you that both end the potential life, so abortion should be legal. You have not givin any reason that it should be banned, just reasons you don't like it, and most of them are ethical...
Huh kind of crazy how everyone know this except for yourself.
Pg.115
it's not a baby, it's a fetus, and until it can survive outside of the womb it is not a human. it only has the potential to become human. every single sperm also has the potential to become human. the difference is that a fetus has more potential whereas a sperm has less potential. but your just talking about different amounts of potential, so they are comparable.
Hey, look it's you again disagreeing with what you just said now
Pg. 115
Masterbation prevents the sperm from ever gitting to the overum, so it is the same, just at an earlier stage.
Pg. 116
..And masturbation prevents a specific baby , there will be more sperm to replace it and there will be more sex to replace the aborted fetus.
Pg. 116 314d1 disagreeing with yourself, we all know this.
And masterbation keeps you from ever being pregnent. So they both have the same effect.
Pg. 117 314d1 Whoa, you again.
Materterbation PREVENTSpregnancy thus it and abortion HAVE THE SAME END EFFECT OF THE CHILD NEVER BIENG BORN
Pg. 117 314d1 Again.
We all know that masterbation and abortion are not synonyms.
But THEY HAVE THE SAME END AFFECT
Pg. 118 314d1 Again and now your taking what I said and turning it into a debate about ethics. WHEN I'M SIMPLY STATING THE ENDS OF MASTURBATION AREN'T THE SAME AS THE ENDS OF ABORTION. I wasn't getting at whether abortion is right or wrong.
In your example, the end result is still the same, the magnets ended up apart. You just don't like seperating them becase you feel like your killing somthing "cute and fuzzy". But you have to remember, the magnets whould have connected if you hand was not there. So its just ending it before it starts, either way your doing that, but you think " So now its almost alive, now its wrong".
Pg.119 314d1 below you didn't try to see it in my perspective. What you did do however is take the debate on whether the ends of abortion are the same as the ends of masturbation and turned it into a debate on whether it was ethical or not to have an abortion.
I tried seeing it in your prospective, but the only reason I could think of for you bieng against it is the fact that one is just a little further to being life....
As I have said before, one takes longer. The embryo is aborted, but more can be made. The same as sperm. But that doesen't make abortion wrong if the condem breaks or if there ***** or somthing like that.
Whether or not abortion is ethical (however I am against abortion) has nothing to do with the debate on whether the ends of masturbation are the same as the ends of abortion. They cannot be because in a strict physical an abortion is a terminated pregnancy (embryo or fetus, etc.) where masturbation gives sexual pleasure and has the expulsion of sperm which die. Sperms aren't fetuses or Embryo's . Masturbation is not comparable to abortion and would not require banning if abortion were banned.
More like 68,0000 die annually. And are you a total idiot? It seems you can't comprehend what I'm saying and that I'll have to spell it out for you: Abortions have the risk of killing the mother. Was that clear enough or do I have to go in detail about how they kill the fetus to, because apparently you can't understand that. I'm not going to waste time posting axiomatic things such as "ABORTIONS KILL FETUSES!"
Sorry for the double post, but I whould like to point out that on every site I when to the words "abortion kills mothers" has always had a word like " unsafe abortion kills mothers" or "back ally abortion kills mothers". The risk of legal abortion in the hospital is way less then what you say it is.
God, by same effect I mean same end affect, I guese its hard to cammunicate this over the internet. The fact that they both stop they baby from ever happining, the only different is the fact that the fetus is a little further and a little more human. But what Im trying to say is that no matter what you do, excluding actualy caring for the child, you are stopping it from bieng born. Its like somone is making beer. If they have half the ingridiants, and you keep it from gitting to the other half, then its not beer. But if you put them together and stop it in the fermentation process, then its still not fully beer, just a little more beer then the previos.
Worldwide, 50% of all induced abortions are these "back alley" or "unsafe" abortions. Nowhere did I claim that they had to be in the hospital. I'm talking about abortions in general here. Unsafe abortion still has the same effect as a safe abortion.
Another random fact: 13% of all maternal deaths are caused by abortion.
If you stop the beer from forming you've prevented it. If you empty the beer into the drain you wasted the beer (which is a party foul).
For the pro-abortion people I'm going to assume they don't believe the fetus is human. And for the pro-life people (me) I'm going to assume we believe the fetus is human. So yeah there's an even bigger difference for killing a sperm and a fetus to me because killing the fetus is killing a human. But don't stop reading there. Even if you don't believe the fetus is a human it's still a whole lot different then a sperm. So regardless of if you consider the fetus human it should be agreed upon that the termination of a fetus and the termination of a sperm are completely different things. One is a fetus which required sex, a female and make, successful fertilization, a womb, an ovum, and a sperm to produce.
One is a sperm, which required only a man and a testicle to produce.
The ends of masturbation are not the same as the ends of abortion.
IN ORDER TO TERMINATE A FETUS IT MUST EXIST FIRST. CONDOMS = PREVENTION. ABORTIONS = TERMINATIONS. MASTURBATION = TERMINATED SPERM.
*male not make, and *ABORTIONS = TERMINATED FETUSES
MASTURBATION = TERMINATED SPERM
FETUSES do NOT equal SPERMS
[quote]If you stop the beer from forming you've prevented it. If you empty the beer into the drain you wasted the beer (which is a party foul).
Its not beer yet
For the pro-abortion people I'm going to assume they don't believe the fetus is human. And for the pro-life people (me) I'm going to assume we believe the fetus is human. So yeah there's an even bigger difference for killing a sperm and a fetus to me because killing the fetus is killing a human. But don't stop reading there. Even if you don't believe the fetus is a human it's still a whole lot different then a sperm. So regardless of if you consider the fetus human it should be agreed upon that the termination of a fetus and the termination of a sperm are completely different things. One is a fetus which required sex, a female and make, successful fertilization, a womb, an ovum, and a sperm to produce.
One is a sperm, which required only a man and a testicle to produce.
The ends of masturbation are not the same as the ends of abortion.
IN ORDER TO TERMINATE A FETUS IT MUST EXIST FIRST. CONDOMS = PREVENTION. ABORTIONS = TERMINATIONS. MASTURBATION = TERMINATED SPERM.
Name one good reason that the "otential life" becomes "baby killer" when it becomes a fetus and not when its sperm and egg? As some have said before, the fetus can't servive on its own either, it still needs somthing to provide it nutrition...
Name one good reason that the "otential life" becomes "baby killer" when it becomes a fetus and not when its sperm and egg? As some have said before, the fetus can't servive on its own either, it still needs somthing to provide it nutrition...
What in the world are you talking about. I didn't say potential life or baby killer in the last few posts. I'm not arguing anything about the potential for life.
I'm trying to show you that a sperm is far different from a fetus. Like a tire is part of a car (a sperm is part of the genetics of a human and a fetus) but a tire isn't a car. And a sperm isn't a fetus.
If i throw out a knife have I prevented a murder. NO! that's the same as when your sperm die from masturbation. It doesn't prevent a pregnancy because no female was there to get pregnant and that sperm wasn't headed toward a female. Wearing a condom does prevent a pregnancy because the sperm was right there headed toward the woman and even then we aren't sure if the woman would get pregnant or not had the condom not been there.
So even wearing condoms and having sex with the condom on isn't the
same as an abortion. Masturbation isn't the same as abortion.
And were do you keep finding this ethical debates of whether or not abortion is right or wrong in my posts. All I'm saying is masturbation and abortion aren't comparable. ONE KILLS FETUSES ONE KILLS SPERMS. destroying a tire isn't destroying a car. Destroying a sperm isn't destroying a fetus.
What in the world are you talking about. I didn't say potential life or baby killer in the last few posts. I'm not arguing anything about the potential for life.
I know you didn't, but maney other people I know call pro-choice people "baby killers" but say masterbation is " pro life"
If i throw out a knife have I prevented a murder. NO! that's the same as when your sperm die from masturbation. It doesn't prevent a pregnancy because no female was there to get pregnant and that sperm wasn't headed toward a female. Wearing a condom does prevent a pregnancy because the sperm was right there headed toward the woman and even then we aren't sure if the woman would get pregnant or not had the condom not been there.
And there is nothing saying the baby will live after its born. It has a greater chance, I whould guese, but like I said, you can't make beer if you never mix the ingreediants.
And were do you keep finding this ethical debates of whether or not abortion is right or wrong in my posts. All I'm saying is masturbation and abortion aren't comparable. ONE KILLS FETUSES ONE KILLS SPERMS. destroying a tire isn't destroying a car. Destroying a sperm isn't destroying a fetus.
Abortion has alote to do with what you consider human, and you have to know your opponent, so Im looking for the reason why you are against it. You said you think the fetus is human, witch brings you to the conclushion of ethics that "killing" it is wrong....
I think at last it is the choise of the pregnant woman she has to live with it if she aborts or if she gets the child
You must be logged in to post a reply!