Forums → WEPR → Abortion
| 1508 | 314920 |
What my peers here think?
I would like to try and avoid a buch of rabid Catholics and Christians falling back only on the religious reasons and what have you. However, I do not see how that can be dodged.
My view? I'm for it. If a woman wants to get one, it is her choice. Some people seem to act like if one woman gets an abortion, it means that all the rest have to. If the child in question is not yours, butt out.
Also, on a lighter note, I say that abortions should be allowed when kids are up to 18 years old. That would solve a lot of headaches, eh?
- 1,508 Replies
Really?...........Either way, the revolution started 3 years after the 20 year marker.
Not directly, but I was talking about the generation of un-aborted children that were adults when the revolution took place. Your original point was that the ban on abortion caused crime rates to increase, so I brought up the revolution, which could have caused it as well.
Why are you even talking about 9/10 year olds then?
Because you asked what my point was on the generation of un-aborted people was, and I said that it was mainly the adults that do the crimes, NOT children.
In no way, shape or form did you indicate the woman had a chance of death.
I didn't directly indicate, but it is possible to die from too much pain, via heart attack from the shock. So the chance of death is still there for both choices.
Either way arguing against abortion on the basis it could kill the woman is ridiculous.
Yeah, the main argue against abortion was that there's really no point and children usually bring happiness to the parents. The risk of dying was more of a sub-point, saying that there's no point to risk death when you could just bring more joy into your life.
So any revolution that succeeds is similar to the French Revolution.
No, if they succeed they are just more similar than ones that fail.
Seeing as he was on another continent, that wasn't really an option,
Even if he was on the continent, I doubt they would have captured him then executed him. Most leaders supported the revolution, but not the extreme use of violence they were using.
During war time, crime rates actually drop.
Then the supposed increase in crime rate due to abortion being illegal should have balanced out, but it didn't. This can only lead me to believe the revolution helped crime rate to increase, due to Ceausescu having very little support, and everybody being violent.
Firefly, thanks for reading my posts, sorry are I got mad there a few posts back.
No problem. I think I went too far aswell, and for that I also apologise.
Your original point was that the ban on abortion caused crime rates to increase, so I brought up the revolution, which could have caused it as well.
True enough, but the rise in crime rate occured before the revolution began, and then dropped when the revolution started.
Because you asked what my point was on the generation of un-aborted people was, and I said that it was mainly the adults that do the crimes, NOT children.
But I never claimed it was the children who committed the crimes.
I didn't directly indicate, but it is possible to die from too much pain, via heart attack from the shock. So the chance of death is still there for both choices.
Chance of death does not equal definite death. Nor did you indicate there is a chance of a woman dying due to pregnancy, you just said 9 months of pain.
Really the two choices are, a chance of death without 9 months of pain, or 9 months of pain and a chance of death. I think it's safe to say what any rational human being would choose.
Yeah, the main argue against abortion was that there's really no point and children usually bring happiness to the parents.
Financial issues are a massive factor, along with emotional immaturity. If you combine the two, the chances of a child living a happy life or enriching the life of a parent are pretty slim.
saying that there's no point to risk death when you could just bring more joy into your life.
But you risk death by undergoing pregnancy too.
Even if he was on the continent, I doubt they would have captured him then executed him. Most leaders supported the revolution, but not the extreme use of violence they were using.
Considering the Americans were willing and able to use violence to achieve their aims, I don't think it is so unlikely that they would have executed George if they had the chance. That said this is irrelevant, since as I have already listed many revolutions where the leaders of the defeated faction was killed.
Then the supposed increase in crime rate due to abortion being illegal should have balanced out, but it didn't.
Evidence?
This can only lead me to believe the revolution helped crime rate to increase, due to Ceausescu having very little support, and everybody being violent.
Violence during a revolution is not really counted as crime, in the same way that killing during a time of war is considered legal.
True enough, but the rise in crime rate occured before the revolution began, and then dropped when the revolution started.
For that to work, it would have to be the generation when the ban on abortions started that committed the crimes. And the theory is that the unwanted children are more inclined to become criminals, not the parents. So it would have to be the teenage children that weren't aborted that would be committing most of the crimes, which probably wasn't the majority of them.
But I never claimed it was the children who committed the crimes.
Then we agree. I think this misunderstanding stemmed from the talk about the revolutionary leaders??
Financial issues are a massive factor, along with emotional immaturity. If you combine the two, the chances of a child living a happy life or enriching the life of a parent are pretty slim.
Teenagers only account for 20% of abortions, so only about 1/5 of the people are emotionally unready. That's an 80~% of the parents being emotionally ready, which isn't slim at all. However, the financial issue is another problem. About 30% of all abortions come from people/families of an income of less than $15,000. Considering that if they didn't have an abortion and are married, then that would be considered low-income. So that means there's a 70~% chance they would be financially OK as well. Also not very slim. Abortion stat citation , Low-income amount citation [url].
But you risk death by undergoing pregnancy too.
In Finland a study was made comparing the people who died from childbirth and abortions of all sources. Based on 100,000 cases per, they came up with 27 for childbirth and 101 for abortion (amount of deaths, of course). Of course, since Finland isn't an undeveloped country, I'm not sure about how much safer it is to have an abortion than childbirth in an undeveloped country, but I assume it would childbirth would still stay lower than abortion. [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9292639]Link. This study was done in 1994, so chances for both have probably reduced as well.
Considering the Americans were willing and able to use violence to achieve their aims, I don't think it is so unlikely that they would have executed George if they had the chance.
It is likely, but based on the views of leaders and there strong 'frowning upon' of the violence used by French revolutionaries, it seems to me they were more inclined to just make him acknowledge their independence and letting him go, instead of just executing him.
That said this is irrelevant, since as I have already listed many revolutions where the leaders of the defeated faction was killed.
Again, the point was that revolutionary times could help crime rate increase, but as you said crime rate reduced in Romania during the revolution, this is now completely irrelevant, like you said.
Evidence?
Simple mathematics. Let's say that crime rate increase due to illegalization of abortion is 2, and the crime rate reduction because of revolution is 1. 2-1=1. They help balance out. (Obviously, the numbers aren't realistic, and just made up on the spot.)
Violence during a revolution is not really counted as crime, in the same way that killing during a time of war is considered legal.
The violence used to further the revolution isn't considered a crime, but the violence makes people more violent during other times as well. If I murdered my family during revolution, that would still be a crime. But since you said the crime rate reduced during the revolution in Romania, this is ALSO completely irrelevant. If you had just said that the crime rate dropped back down during the revolution in the first place, so much pointlessness could have been avoided...
need no worry if abortion is illegal. theres always the do-it-yourself methods.
Gosh dang it. Messed up the links. At least it's still readable. Here is the link for Finish study: Click. I have no idea where those "rnrnlrn"s came from. :/
Now hang on...
I can be sympathetic to a view that holds that a fetus is still, in some sense, a person. But to claim that it's alive doesn't seem cogent at all.
I'm curious, is there a definition of "living" under which a fetus could potentially fall - that doesn't beg the question?
I'm curious, is there a definition of "living" under which a fetus could potentially fall - that doesn't beg the question?
Anything made of cells is scientifically alive. But cells shouldn't get human rights because of what they wanna be when they grow up.
Main Entry: 1life
Pronunciation: \\ËlÄ«f\\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural lives \\ËlÄ«vz\\
Etymology: Middle English lif, from Old English lÄ«f; akin to Old English libban to live â" more at live
Date: before 12th century
1 a : the quality that distinguishes a vital and functional being from a dead body b : a principle or force that is considered to underlie the distinctive quality of animate beings c : an organismic state characterized by capacity for metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction
2 a : the sequence of physical and mental experiences that make up the existence of an individual b : one or more aspects of the process of living <sex life of the frog>
3 : biography 1
4 : spiritual existence transcending physical death
5 a : the period from birth to death b : a specific phase of earthly existence <adult life> c : the period from an event until death <a judge appointed for life> d : a sentence of imprisonment for the remainder of a convict's life
6 : a way or manner of living
7 : livelihood
8 : a vital or living being; specifically : person <many lives were lost in the disaster>
9 : an animating and shaping force or principle
10 : spirit, animation <saw no life in her dancing>
11 : the form or pattern of something existing in reality <ainted from life>
12 : the period of duration, usefulness, or popularity of something <the expected life of the batteries>
13 : the period of existence (as of a subatomic particle) â" compare half-life
14 : a property (as resilience or elasticity) of an inanimate substance or object resembling the animate quality of a living being
15 : living beings (as of a particular kind or environment) <forest life>
16 a : human activities b : animate activity and movement <stirrings of life> c : the activities of a given sphere, area, or time <the political life of the country>
17 : one providing interest and vigor <life of the party>
18 : an opportunity for continued viability <gave the patient a new life>
19 capitalized Christian Science : god 1b
20 : something resembling animate life <a grant saved the project's life>
Since reton likes dictionary refrences so much, here is the one for life. And alt, Biologicaly your wrong... I think there was a link to the exact things you need in there since I am about to have dinner....
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/LIFE
And alt, Biologicaly your wrong... I think there was a link to the exact things you need in there since I am about to have dinner....
Well, eukaryotic cell-speaking. I know viruses aren't considered 'alive' despite being cells. Some prokaryotic beings and all eukaryotic beings are scientifically alive.
Well, eukaryotic cell-speaking. I know viruses aren't considered 'alive' despite being cells. Some prokaryotic beings and all eukaryotic beings are scientifically alive.
Well, dead people are also made of cells so I don't think this definition will work.
That's a nice list of definitions, 314d1. A lot of them would beg the question, though. I'm curious about this definition:
an organismic state characterized by capacity for metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction
I don't think a fetus is alive by this definition. No?
I whould say no, not without the mother, and it can't reproduce... So I whould say its not actualy alive...
I'm for it as well. It's a woman's choice if she wants to get one or not, no-one else has the right to decide for her. Most abortions are because she is unable to care for it properly, anyway.
Now, I'm not saying that every woman who can legally have sex should go have unprotected sex and then get an abortion when she finds out she's pregnant. I'm just saying I believe its her choice.
/Gravedig.
im against it personally unless the mother was r@ped or if she got like...cancer which the kemo would kill the baby...so its either the mother or the mother and the baby
the childs heart starts to beat after 5-6 weeks
the childs heart starts to beat after 5-6 weeks
Jeez this is going to sound so cold. Which means until that point that is not a baby but a lump of rapidly multiplying cells that is really just a bunch of nutrients.
New question: if the fetus was to somehow become a political figure, and the mother of the fetus had an abortion, would that be assassination? If abortion is murder, the answer would be yes, correct?
You must be logged in to post a reply!