I say heck no! That is not fair for gay people to wed. I have many gay friends who i think would love to get married. I think if two people love each other they should get married. So what if they are the same sex it shouldn't matter. And for people saying that is against god or w/e you think it is against, let me tell you god loves all his kids AND love is between two people man/woman man/man woman/woman, not the whole world. So it shouldn't be peoples decisions just the couples. So i ask you all to vote no on prop 8 and let everyone wed, help spread the word!
Well, a few churches have already come under review because they "spread hate speech" against gays, but if you actually read that book that you're swearing on, you'd find that "alternate lifestyles" are condemned...
It will do no such thing. No church is under any obligation to perform a same sex marriage under current law in California. That will not change.
Well, not only to perform a same-sex marriage, but if a church comes out against "gay rights". If I know those crazy liberals, they will come out with every lawyer they have against every church in the state.
Of course there would be SOME who would do that; every group has their fringe lunatics. The simple fact of the matter is that forcing a church (or more specifically a minister) to perform a marriage ceremony that they feel goes against their religion is just as much a violation of the "separation of church and state" as force gay people to marry against their sexual orientation is. It would get shot down by a Supreme Court (I'm fairly certain the STate Supreme Court here in California would make that ruling).
Now if a church was advocating harassing people (like that idiot Fred Phelps who's been protesting at the funerals of dead soldiers, which, as a veteran, really chaps my hide) or harming them, that is another matter entirely and they very well should be put "under review" for such activity.
As for your your asertion that;
hey already have equal rights - they can marry anyone they want, as long as they're of the opposite sex...
I suggest you look into the history of the phrase "separate but equal." I say again that as someone who is of mixed race and ethnicity, I can't believe more people don't see the similarity.
Put another way. I'm a grown up, a veteran of the U.S. Navy, and have an IQ in the genius range. SO I'd really appreciate it if y'all (generally speaking) would stay out of my bedroom and private life, since there is no one in either but consenting adults.
I don't believe in that form of a god but I'm not ignorant because I don't completely ignore it's existence in others minds and what is updated. Ignorance comes from the word Ignore, and you simply ignore that their may be other chances and to have religious tolerance would be a welcome idea for those who don't have your belief in our nation.
And also, guess what, remember that part of the constitution, "Individual's rights may not infringe of the rights of others". Well that means your religion is not a purpose to ban something in a political world.
Also, damning people is not a good thing for you to do in our forums because even though I am not religiously involved I'm sure you know this part of the bible:
"Thou shall not judge thy neighbor, for in the end all shall be judged by god"
Something many Catholic's, or what I used to supposedly pertain to, ignore. Funny thing that ignorance is..
About that free spirited hippies thing, hippies died, this is the new reign of something people hope to call intellectualism..
Btw, you are technically a puritan.. If you make such comments in a work place you can get sued, so watch out. Just a lil waiver for you.
I also call one last thing, I will forward you 20 bucks by paypal if you go and watch the movie Religulous and don't criticize it to me for being some Michael More crap because it disagree's with what you so strongly believe.
Religion is rediculuous, and no matter how many people trash scientology for however skrewed up a religion it is, how would you like it if you'd never heard of christianity and I came to you and said,
"There is a god, who sent his son, which was technically the god, but it wasn't, down to earth to do his biddings by two person's work, but really it was one person, and the father told himself in heaven that he which was his son had to go down to earth on a suicide mission to some how morally clense people at a time of religious persecution of not quite any certainty"
If I said that to you today and scientology was 2,000 years old, I'd be crucified.. That's how rediculous it is.
I bet you even think Noah's Ark actually happened!
Hoo boy, not another religious discussion. I'm not going to touch the Noah's Ark debate, but I am wondering what the Jesus equation actually is.
Could somebody please post, here, exactly what proposition 8 is, and provide a link to information about it? That way we can actually have a well-informed discussion.
That your going to hell according to my religion the right religion by the by again don't say I'm ignorant not trying to sound ignorant
I will only say one thing to comments like this: people generally sound ignorant when they aren't trying to sound ignorant.
Strop if you go back a page or two, I provided a link to the California Secretary of State's elections page, specifically their ballot measures section (I may have only pasted in the url and not acutally made it a link). As I said in that particular post, the details of ALL of California's ballot measures, including full text and current status i.e. qualified for the ballot yet or not) are included there.
Hmm, hadn't thought of the non-US thing (and yes that web site has become a bit of a pain).
Here's the current Wiki entry for the proposition (as always wiki's have the problem of public editing but there are references cited near bottom of page). Is that a little easier? If you select the section entitled, "Proposed Amendment" a description is given of the results should it pass (including an interest bit of data about the amendment not being retroactive).
There are also links to both proponents and opponents to the measure from that page, as well as details about the legal history of the issue at large.
You can also look on ballotpedia (a website wiki styled for elections issues) here for more info though much of it is the same. THey do provide a link to a PDF version of the full text of the measure, however (under external links, full text of initiative, last page of PDF). I did not realize the CA SOS site had eliminated that feature, my apologies. For those with problems with the document here is the full text:
SECTION I. Tit le This measure shall be known and may be cited as the "Ca lifornia Marriage Protection Act." SECTION 2. Ar ticle I. Sect ion 7.5 is added to th e California Const itution. to read: Sec. 7.5. Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.
Here is the California Legislative Analyst's statement on the measure. This is a non-partisan group that summarizes the estimated fiscal affects of all Ballot Measures in California (be they citizen petitions or legislative).
My point is that christianity is a bunch of really wierd put together tales and supposed stories that are supposed to influence our lives in a positive way. If you had never heard of the religion before and some random person comes up and says that there are things like that when you believe there are many dieties or none at all, you'd think it's crazy.
I'd say thinking your religion is the only possible answer is a bunch of stupidity because you deny everyone elses and make stupid decisions as often as there are motivated influences.
Any religion after the revolution of the science is considered crazy just because all other religions wouldn't acknowledge better and are purely ignorant to others beliefs.
It's hilarious, people think all muslims want to kill us, that we can't elect a muslim president, that the entire bible is a literal story(Sarah Palin), that we're fighting a war for god(Sarah Palin), that Noah's Ark actually happened!
