I say heck no! That is not fair for gay people to wed. I have many gay friends who i think would love to get married. I think if two people love each other they should get married. So what if they are the same sex it shouldn't matter. And for people saying that is against god or w/e you think it is against, let me tell you god loves all his kids AND love is between two people man/woman man/man woman/woman, not the whole world. So it shouldn't be peoples decisions just the couples. So i ask you all to vote no on prop 8 and let everyone wed, help spread the word!
Hm, I was reading the news and discovered that the actual context behind this, on a federal level (with regard to the presidential candidates) is actually really complex.
In a nutshell,
Barack Obama
* Is a Uniting Church Christian. * Believes that marriage is a sacred institution on religious grounds. * Is a strong supporter of anti-discriminatory legislation. * Will therefore not stop gay marriage and will oppose a US Constitutional amendment that deems marriage a heterosexual affair. * Strongly opposes proposition 8. * But does not support gay marriage and will not support legislation that seeks to allow it! * But then again says that his views are his own and he may be 'misguided' and also 'open to the possibility'.
John McCain
* Is mostly influenced by his federalist views on this issue, moreso than religion. * Also does not support gay marriage, allegedly on cultural grounds. * But would opposes a US Constitutional amendment to making marriage exclusively heterosexual on the grounds this should be for the states to decide. * Strongly supports proposition 8 and criticised the State Supreme Court ruling to overturn it in California.
Awahhhh so confusing!!!
Well not really but it does take some time to get your head around the intricacies, no? Some of you who are prone to criticising Obama for being a "fence-sitter" may see cause to do so further here.
Being more neutral, I won't say any more that to note that Australian and United States federal politics (and economics) has closely resonated in more recent years, regardless of which set of events preceeded the other. One reason I originally predicted that Obama would eventually win was because the candidates Obama and McCain very strongly resemble Rudd and Howard in '07. And I mean almost right down to the detail, here.
The similarities are so strong they're scary. But I'll tell you now...Rudd won by a landslide that opened up on the day of the election. It was the outcome we all saw coming, but didn't see approaching.
One reason I originally predicted that Obama would eventually win was because...
That McCain did the #1 most wrongful thing to do, and that would be having Palin as his running mate. I was one of those people who were like "Meh, they are both ok, it really wouldn't matter.." but after I saw that Palin was joining, my expression was that of an epic FACEPALM. I promptly switched to Obama afterwards.
I feel gay people should receive the same benefits as Married people, but the term Marriage has always meant a union between a Man and a Woman.
I think they should come up with a new word that means marriage to them. Call it 'Unionity' or something, that means a life long commitment between a Man and Man or Woman and Woman.
Then we wouldn't have all these debates and we could all get along.
I don't know where to stand on gay marrige... It is a double- edged sword.
On one hand... It is fair and equal rights for people in America, which is founded on freedom. Also, They have been fighting tirelessly for years now for their equal rights. So, why shouldn't they be able to marry. This will also help find foster home children a home.
On the other... Marriage should be a sacred bond between a man and a woman, and gay marriage might begin beastiality marriage or oblect marriage, which would be wierd
Separate but equal. America already tried and failed at it. People hate and want to be separated from the minority. Like giving a right away will somehow hurt them. Racism kept the bathrooms separate for so long. Homophobia gives civil unions which is "just" as good. Just not quite marriage.
Waiting for progress when you're part of that hated minority is so hard. Just trying to make people understand that you're not trying to make their life worse but only make yours better. That being second class is hurtful. Being told that you can have something close to a civil right but you're not quite good enough to deserve the whole thing makes so many people, so many regular Americans, feel like utter shit.
Imagine being a teenage girl with all the regular teenage girl fantasies about the big wedding, and the wedding dress, and being in love, and the ceremony, and the planning then being told no. You can't have that, you don't deserve that because there is something wrong with you, you aren't good enough for that but we'll toss you this cheap knockoff. It's close enough. Then try being a bridesmaid at your friends wedding and looking around and thinking that you might never get to have that. You might get some fake version but it wouldn't be the same. Just imagine how that might feel. Well never mind imagining, I'll just tell you how it feels. It's painful and slightly heartbreaking.
If you're straight a yes or no vote gets you nothing. You don't lose anything and you don't win anything either way. Your lives are absolutely not effected either way. You don't have to pick up the pieces of a destroyed family or celebrate a new beginning in civil rights. But you Californians are deciding the civil rights and the fates of a entire group of Americans. Not just other Californians but all of us. It will trickle down to other smaller states, the choice you make on voting day. Just think about what you are really doing and the real effect of your vote. Think about the people that are really being effected. The people that have to live with the consequences of your vote. If you don't care then fine, but maybe just thinking about it might give you some new insight.
Separate but equal only works when you're not on the side that is forced to be separate. And with that, I retire from this thread. The vote is right there anyway and I've said literally everything I can say on this topic. I'll cross my fingers and tomorrow will probably end with me in tears either for a happy reason or a really sad one.
The reason I wrote the above was as much to highlight where proposition 8 fits in with the elections, as drawing a contrast, or rather, drawing attention to the details of the contrast as a means of demonstrating how there are similarities between the candidates.
I'm voting 'Yes' on Prop-8.
I feel gay people should receive the same benefits as Married people, but the term Marriage has always meant a union between a Man and a Woman.
Despite my preference for a "no" vote (for the reason that a rescindment of rights would send the wrong message and probably do more damage than good- I would support a title amendment as opposed to a reversion), I'm actually perfectly okay with the rationale that Dan has provided. Thank god somebody who supports prop 8 had the presence of mind to present a civilised rationale.
The main issue here is the ambiguity and sheer variety in the way the term "marriage" is bandied about these days.
