AGS Steam Games

Forums → WEPR → Should Animals Have Rights? Why?

309 59793
thepossum
offline
thepossum
3,035 posts
Nomad

Should animals have any rights? If you answer please explain.

  • 309 Replies
HumpteyTumptey
offline
HumpteyTumptey
2 posts
Nomad

animals are alive, like trees, and like people. if you hurt one of them you can feel it suffer, and nobody should be happy hearing an animal suffer, neither the animals hurt themselves just to see what happens...


So many things in history depend on animal labor, I don't know why you would even bring this up. If you want to be extremely sympathetic towards animals, then you can say things like that. If you want to be realistic, you will accept that there are borders to what humans can (and should) do to animals, and that those borders are pretty far off.
It is essentially the same with rainforest protection. You may be adamant about not cutting down the trees for good reasons, and while arguing with someone else, slam your fist down upon a wooden table.
Wonder where that wood comes from...
rougie
offline
rougie
45 posts
Nomad

animals are alive, like trees, and like people

Yes, trees are alive in the sense that they exist and photosynthesize sunlight and take in water and convert oxygen into CO2, but (again), they do not have motivation, self-interest, or the ability to feel pain (no brain, no nervous system, nothing!), so if you "feel them suffer", its your own guilt for taking down a balsam, not the tree giving off painful auras or whatever it is you think you feel. You don't hear anyone talk about "tree rights" because they have no interests or motivations to protect! Trees and rainforests are protected not for the trees sake, but for the ecosystems, animals and other organisms they support (and that sweet, sweet oxygen we all enjoy breathing so very very much).
rougie
offline
rougie
45 posts
Nomad

That one bit should say trees convert CO2 into oxygen, not vice-versa (it's been a long day)

Ernie15
offline
Ernie15
13,344 posts
Bard

What "rights" could you actually give an animal?

Gameblade
offline
Gameblade
70 posts
Nomad

Torturing animals is wrong, and killing them isn't too nice either, but stopping people from eating meat is out of the question at this point (McDonald's, Burger King, etc.). And technically, humans are animals. So if it's wrong to kill humans, which it is, then it's wrong to kill animals. And vegetarians are healthy, trust me.

Ernie15
offline
Ernie15
13,344 posts
Bard

I frown upon vegetarianism. And what do animals have in stock for them? Kill them or not, they won't have a future.

deth4
offline
deth4
759 posts
Nomad

we need animals for sustenance. i know that you can get as much out of vegetarianism as meatitarian, but seriously, if you had the option to give up a juicy delicious cheeseburger for some grass and berries would you do it? also, would the animals really appreciate rights? i mean they havent asked for them have they? we in america fought for our freedom and rights but i dont see animals doing the same.

Ernie15
offline
Ernie15
13,344 posts
Bard

It would be hard to live without both meat and veggies, and McD's will say the same thing. If everyone were vegetarian, the earth would be overpopulated with skinny humans and carnivorous animals, who would eventually kill the neglegent humans as a result of the humans not killing them.

nonconformist
offline
nonconformist
1,101 posts
Nomad

Guys im rlly sry to break the news to you, but vegetarians just aren't getting the nutrition they need. It has been proven in many studies, and one example is a topic that has been made about why people shouldn't be vegetarians. Vegan's are still pretty bad and sumhow that guy on AFI decided to tell the whole world that its better to become a vegan cuz you'll save the world. Yet I don't understand. Savin the world how??? By making your fat turn to nothing and becoming a walking skeleton with flabs of skin everywhere? Dude honestly I like meat, I like eggs, and i lovveeee milk. Me turning into a vegan... well lets just say at the moment I'd rather die some kinda painfull death then stop eating those. (well i'd end up dieing from lack of nutrition, and lack of good tasting food XD). Anyways onto the topic...
Animals should NOT have rights. There brains are too limited on concepts, and would not understand what rights are. I understand that some may have some ideal concept on basic math, and creative ideas, but these are all traits to help them survive in life. Obviosly carnivor sea creatures need to understand which school of fish is bigger so they can get enough nutrition and food to allow them to survive long enough to find more food. Using nifty objects, again just to find food. I'm sure we would all need to become like nifty like that when we are starving. Like little kids using a whole bunch of stools and chairs and boxes to get cookies from a cookie jar.
Yes they all have these "concepts" that make question some things. But again its about basic instincts of survival. Ticks that build large and advanced structures as their homes i admit are amazing!!! But again they need these to protect them from wood peckers, and other things that may attack them while they are trying to live.
If we were to give animals "rights" wouldn't that mean to take away "rights" as well? If we were to give them the basic rights we have: the right to life, the right to security, the right to vote... etc... It would just put the world into utter chaos. We would be trying animals left and right because they are killing other animals for survival. We would not get any meat anymore due to the fact that it would be "commiting a crime" by shooting and butchering cows. It just wouldn't work.
If your trying to get at the fact that we shouldn't abuse animals, I fully agree. Abusing is inhuman and those who do it deserve to have the same done to them. nuff said.

Slyphidius
offline
Slyphidius
39 posts
Nomad

Let us remember that humans are animals too but what do you mean by rights? They should have the right to not be tortured in horrible ways that would not happen naturally but in the case of should we or should we not eat them of course we should it was meant to be this way although they shouldn't be kept in cages all their lives and we shouldn't eat them to a point of endangering them.

Strop
offline
Strop
10,816 posts
Bard

In order to stave off yet another episode of "vegetarian ethics debates" (because this forum has seen many of them), I'll just say this:

Dude honestly I like meat, I like eggs, and i lovveeee milk.


Is the real reason any person criticises vegetarians.

Honest. Take it from me, about 99% of the arguments regarding whether or not vegetarians do or don't get enough nutrition are bullhockey because they don't even get the premises right.

So please, try not to use them.
Strop
offline
Strop
10,816 posts
Bard

Oh oh oh oh, wait, one more thing.

Animals should NOT have rights. There brains are too limited on concepts, and would not understand what rights are.


Eh, come back to the posts on this page and the next one.

Then come back when you have a solid rebuttal for the argument I've forwarded. As you can see, donosld made the same argument, and I feel pretty confident that I've comprehensively dismantled every facet of it.

In short I think you're wrong: justify yourself.
Zophia
offline
Zophia
9,434 posts
Scribe

I frown upon vegetarianism. And what do animals have in stock for them? Kill them or not, they won't have a future.
... I could say the same about humans. None of us have any other certain future, than that we will die. So why not hurry the process along.

we need animals for sustenance. i know that you can get as much out of vegetarianism as meatitarian, but seriously, if you had the option to give up a juicy delicious cheeseburger for some grass and berries would you do it? also, would the animals really appreciate rights? i mean they havent asked for them have they? we in america fought for our freedom and rights but i dont see animals doing the same.
Personally I have never eaten meat, and I am generally disgusted when I have to handle it. It's dead flesh, eww! I don't like touching dead bodies, not even just parts of them.
Besides, it's not exactly grass and berries vegetarians survive on......
Did the mentally ill ask for their rights? Does newborn babies have any possibility for fighting for the rights we generally think they deserve? No. Then why would animals need to ask for rights...?

If we were to give animals "rights" wouldn't that mean to take away "rights" as well? If we were to give them the basic rights we have: the right to life, the right to security, the right to vote... etc... It would just put the world into utter chaos. We would be trying animals left and right because they are killing other animals for survival. We would not get any meat anymore due to the fact that it would be "commiting a crime" by shooting and butchering cows. It just wouldn't work.
If your trying to get at the fact that we shouldn't abuse animals, I fully agree. Abusing is inhuman and those who do it deserve to have the same done to them. nuff said.
Well duh, it's not giving animals rights in the context of human society.
I think the most important rights animals can be given, are the rights to keep the three criteria for life... To be able to eat, to be able to clean themselves, to be able to move without pain.
Meaning, they need to be fed properly, they need to be treated well enough for them to be able to keep their own hygiene on a good level, and they need to be at a decent physical status...
Treating animals like objects is just not acceptable... Just because they can't object, why do we need to do things against them?

It would be hard to live without both meat and veggies, and McD's will say the same thing. If everyone were vegetarian, the earth would be overpopulated with skinny humans and carnivorous animals, who would eventually kill the neglegent humans as a result of the humans not killing them.
...
1) I'm a vegetarian, have been so all my life.
2) I'm not exactly skinny. Nor am I malnourished.
3) Just because I'm against killing animals on the factory level, doesn't mean I'm against killing a predator in self defense. Actually I'm fine with people eating meat, I'm just NOT fine with the way many critters are treated before they are slaughtered.
tempo013
offline
tempo013
581 posts
Nomad

Animals have the right to be delicious and I have the right to enjoy them.

Cenere
offline
Cenere
13,657 posts
Jester

And we have the obligation to take care of them, and make sure they do not suffer.
Remember a thing, Tempo: Frightened meat do not taste as well as happy meat. And would you bring yourself to eat something that have had open wounds with infection?

Oh, by the way: Well hung meat? It tastes well, right? Funny thing here: It becomes well hung through a slight rotting. Now enjoy your steak.

Showing 151-165 of 309