Yes. I belive that there is a god somewhere in the stars, and I belive that if you go to church, and repent your sins, you will go up to heaven. And if not, you may still go to heaven unless you have sinned many times and never repneted. Repenting is easy. Just Pray to god: "Dear god, i have sinned. can you forgive me?" And BOOM! thats it. sins are repented.
Parsat, Very nice post, full of well thought out good stuff, but i gots one thing to ask you...Have you ever read Romans 8, Psalms 139, or Ephesians 1? These passages pretty explicitly imply that God has chosen us to choose him.
I understand that it is incredibly hard to explain the concept (God + and Evil world) without free-will, but i also think you might be pigeon-holing the Lord of the Universe. By implying that we are capable of choosing the perfect God, you are saying that we have power over God, the choice to live with or without him for eternity.
Also you should probably keep in mind Ephesians 2:4-6 "God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressionsâ"it is by grace you have been saved" I don't know about you, but i haven't seen any DEAD person making any decisions in quite some time. So, i find it hard to believe that we being dead spiritually made any decision to choose God.
Do you hear yourself speaking? Stop and read your post out loud.
You are telling me that you believe a magical man in the sky will let you do whatever you want and if you telepathically accept him as your master and grovel at his feet because of your wrongdoings he will accept you into an eternal and lovely place in the skies forever and ever.
Does that sound logical to you? And of course, you will respond going on about some crazy thing about faith. But faith is also illogical. Faith is, by definition, belief in the existence of something without proof. Ridiuculous.
However, I am not an Atheist myself. I am agnostic. For those of you ignorant Christians and Catholics who do not know what that is, let me explain it briefly.
One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism. One who believes that an all powerful existence (God) cannot be proven or disproven to exist.
It makes the most sense to me, honestly. So anybody who has something to say to me, please, say it. (:
I have much more respect for the agnostic who professes that they are doubtful about God rather than the atheist who says there is no God. If you believe without doubt, something's wrong with you, and if you don't believe with doubt, it is natural.
You are telling me that you believe a magical man in the sky will let you do whatever you want and if you telepathically accept him as your master and grovel at his feet because of your wrongdoings he will accept you into an eternal and lovely place in the skies forever and ever. Does that sound logical to you? And of course, you will respond going on about some crazy thing about faith. But faith is also illogical. Faith is, by definition, belief in the existence of something without proof. Ridiuculous.
There is evidence for and against God in this world. As for faith, you could take it to mean belief without proof. But the way I think about my faith is "confidence or trust in a person or thing." Faith is the opposite of a fact in terms of absolute truth. It is a fact that 1+1=2, or that the sum of the squares of the lengths is equal to the square of the hypotenuse. They are all facts. But many things are not so clear cut. You may have evidence that something is true, but until you put your faith in it, you will not accept it. The bottom line is, faith can be bolstered by evidence. It needn't be without proof.
No, I do not believe in a "magical man" who will "let me do what I want." The Bible is explicit in stating that when one is truly saved, they will reflect it in their works. But to do so really does requires you "accept him as your master and grovel at his feet." Probably the hardest thing a human has to face is humbling him/herself before someone greater than him, because we all want to be top dog.
Faith may make sense to some people such as yourself, but it is logically unacceptable to have faith, even if it is bolstered by evidence. I need evidence before putting faith in something, so before I put my faith in anything, I need facts. So I cannot put faith in an all powerful existence that is in complete control of the universe, I need proof he exists, even just a little bit.
However, I was not speaking in regards to you about my previous post. I realize what the Bible says, and it's preachings. I have read the Bible, like any true non-catholic/christian. But if it does require you degrading yourself to be accepted into an everlasting peaceful existence, in what seems to me to be an entirely unbefitting and unnecessary way, I would rather be stuck in Limbo. It is perfectly acceptable to repent in a way that retains your dignity, and possible, as well. But from a logistical standpoint, and from my personal view, it seems as if what is required is a bit much.
(Also, if you haven't realized my standpoint and universal views, not to mention reasoning and thinking are all based on logic and reasonableness... it is.)
Take a look at the different logical arguments for and against God. That is all I can say in terms of logic and evidence. There are many evidences for both sides; it's up to you to decide which one to be convinced by. I really don't wish to bloat the forum.
There is one thing that I wish to ask though of you though. Where do we get a universal moral order without a greater good, i.e. a higher order?
A logical person can never win the acceptance of an illogical idea even if the Earth is round and not the center of the universe.Who cares that so many people have died because of irrational ideas lets be monkeys fight each other over bananas, only when something greater and far out of our illusions of control reveals itself then we wont worry about bananas, because all the monkeys will worry about their selfish stupid lives.
The Afflicted, I will mirror what parsat said, being that there are good arguments for both, take your pick and i do not wish to bloat the forums, but also take a look into the argument for the existence of God entitled "Kalam Cosmological Argument" (its my favorite 8) )
Faith may make sense to some people such as yourself, but it is logically unacceptable to have faith, even if it is bolstered by evidence. I need evidence before putting faith in something, so before I put my faith in anything, I need facts. So I cannot put faith in an all powerful existence that is in complete control of the universe, I need proof he exists, even just a little bit.
There is no physical proof to directly prove God, but their is proof in our history and myths, including how the history of man changed with the death of Christ.
Read it. It is the most convincing evidence I have found for the existence of God, and more specifically, the Christian one. This book changed me from agnosticism to Christianity.
WOW bob... you totally got this whole catholic thing screwed up in your brain... I admit saying you were wrong is a good start, but you also have to start showing a turn around after and not keep commiting the same sins.... But of course this is all just some moral thing that the church is helping to create btr everyday life. Repenting is pretty much a bunch of bull to me. I admit when i was 6 and 7 when i said im sry to God i felt all btr, but thats because when your younger you beleive everything.... Ummmm yea God+ Me = a heavenly Orgi.. XD
Sry i only posted cuz i wanted to answer the question. BTW christianty isn't meant to be like sum of those guys who come to ur door to ask u to switch religions... i forget what there called... But anyways advertising Catholicism isn't the way to go guy. Your just giving a bad name to a religion that already has a bad name...
WOW bob... you totally got this whole catholic thing screwed up in your brain...
What Catholic thing? I'm Catholic, and last time I checked, you can repent for sins such as murder and rape, but they're mortal sins, which means you won't be able to get into heaven. It's venial sins, like lying, that can be erased from your soul.
Your just giving a bad name to a religion that already has a bad name...
Catholicism is Christianity, last time I checked. The first branch, actually. For those who need a history refresher, need I remind you that the first, if not one of the first, (I can't remember if Martin Luther or if King Henry came first) "reformed" Protestant churches, the Church of England, was created so a king could get a divorce instead of exiling his wife?
