I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.
one Nation under God
Should the Pledge of Allegiance be changed to support Atheist, who do not belief in God?
wow its really not...good point by johnathann also by saying if your atheist you dont have to say under god because you dont even think god exists. Your not forced to say the pledge, if it goes against your religion or ethics, then they cant force you to say it. There not gonna change it just cause a few people think otherwise of an american tradition
The words "Under god" shouldn't be much of a issue, seeing as they could be specified towards any god in general, not just Christianity. Also, if your atheist, then you still shouldn't care because you yourself know that god doesn't exist (At least in your mind) and saying two words in school shouldn't offend you or change your opinion.
It certainly won't change my opinion, but this a solemn pledge that I am giving. I am certainly a man of my word, and including something in which I don't believe seems to reduce the force of this promise. The simple fact is, this phrase was put in to differentiate us from those "commie bastards" who were considered "godless" for some reason.
This issue has never come up until now, showing what today's society has become. Everybody thinks that what they believe is right, and nobody should think differently. That, and that they think it's cool to rebel from the past society and go on their own path (IE: Atheism).
This has only been an "issue" for about 50 years and the Cold War has only been over for 18 years or so. That might seem like a long time, but think about how long it takes for societal acceptance to evolve. For an incredibly long time, it was a heinous offense to be an atheist in the U.S. (and still is in many places). It's not that saying the phrase has just now become an issue - it's just that people have only been seriously listening in recent years. There was pressure in the '60s to remove the phrase, but such silliness was just chalked up to dirty hippies. Only in the late '90s was the message starting to get heard. Also, I really don't like the idea you have that atheism is just something kids do to rebel. While that might be the case, that's just a straw man of the intellectual atheism that I and many others as adults just accept as the only rational possibility. I know you realize this point, but still, saying stuff like that detracts from your point and makes me forget what the hell I was talking about
Obama "says" he's christian, but he is for abortion and many other things that are more atheist than christian. I think he just said he was christian when he found out that by doing so he would gain more votes.
I like what johnathann had to say about the issue. The whole pledge is to the USA and it doesn't specify what god you are pledging to. Sure if you want to go with the whole idea of separation of church and state and hold it to the tee then yes you probably should do away with it. But in my opinion there really isn't separation of church and state in our government.
For his defense: The flag is more than just a flag.
Okay sure, it is just a flag, but our nation as a whole has decided that the flag is the symbol of our nation and all that it stands for, such as freedom and Liberty for all.
Okay sure, it is just a flag, but our nation as a whole has decided that the flag is the symbol of our nation and all that it stands for, such as freedom and Liberty for all.
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands..." And. Not just to the Republic, but and the Republic, giving both equal value. This implies that the pledge to the flag itself is completely separate. The flag does have symbolic meaning which is directly addressed in the pledge as a separate entity. I don't know about you, but I am not about to pledge anything to a flag.
I have a question for Moe: You omit the 'under God' part because you take your promises seriously, yet you pledge your allegiance to a flag?
Well, for starters, I believe that the American flag exists - I do not believe that a god exists. So clearly pledging allegiance to a flag is not that big of a deal to me. But it's not just "a flag". I pledging my allegiance to the flag of the U.S. and "to the republic for which it stands" meaning the U.S. Now, the whole flag idolatry is a bit weird to me, but in some ways it makes me feel a part of something. My respect for the flag of this nation somehow ties me in with its fate. But, no, I don't having a problem pledging my allegiance to things I believe in.
Well, for starters, I believe that the American flag exists - I do not believe that a god exists. So clearly pledging allegiance to a flag is not that big of a deal to me. But it's not just "a flag". I pledging my allegiance to the flag of the U.S. and "to the republic for which it stands" meaning the U.S. Now, the whole flag idolatry is a bit weird to me, but in some ways it makes me feel a part of something. My respect for the flag of this nation somehow ties me in with its fate. But, no, I don't having a problem pledging my allegiance to things I believe in.
Since you believe there is no god, you should be pledging to nothing when you pledge to god. It should be an irrelevant waste of space to you, because it means nothing, in which case you still pledged to your country, but not god.
Since you believe there is no god, you should be pledging to nothing when you pledge to god. It should be an irrelevant waste of space to you, because it means nothing, in which case you still pledged to your country, but not god.
My only point is that for me it weakens the force of my pledge/promise. I also feel uncomfortable even saying it... it's hard to explain. It's like I feel really silly. I can't even say it right, like it sounds silly in my head. The fact that the phrase was only added 50 years ago also means that I am the one saying the pledge as it was intended. By throwing a god into the mix (even if it isn't a particular god), this opens the doors to a slippery slope that I sincerely hope never happens.
