ForumsWEPRAre Children Not Human?

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thoadthetoad
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thoadthetoad
5,642 posts
Peasant

You know, this has been bugging me for about a year as I pieced it all together through rants in my brain. Ever since the slave ages, kids have not had full human rights in America. The closest to having full human rights was child labor, but that was something of slavery as it had tiny wages. Are children not human enough to have full human rights of freedom of speech, right to bear arms and earn a wages from doing something besides house chores?

Really, we're human too.

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skater_kid_who_pwns
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skater_kid_who_pwns
4,375 posts
Blacksmith

Allright, I have been reading through this, and it seems most of the "older" people here are saying "school is your traning!"

What Kind of traning is that? So your saying that learning what a predicit adjectiv is is important? Or learning how to find what X is in an equation that looks like this X7+98=3465-567=68*7 Is important? Out side of being a mathmatician why the hell do I need to know that?

And in English class. Your telling my reading novels and analyzing them is a skill you will need in life? Hrm? So finding the meanign in "a tale of two citys" Is need curiculam?

Science, I would perfer to learn about BIg things, and how they work, rather then molecules I can not see.

And History. The ONLY subject I see worth takeing.....

So I ask again, what kind of training is this?

Cenere
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Cenere
13,657 posts
Jester

And now, for the topic.

Children might not have full rights, but there is still rules that is there to protect children.
Children might not have the right to vote, and really, seeing how some of you are acting, I do understand that. Some adults should not be allowed to vote as well, but that is another discussion.
Here you are not allowed to work before you are 13 years of age, which is a rule made to prevent abuse. You are not allowed to hit children, and children are the parent's responsibility until at least 15 years of age, which means that it is usually the parents getting into trouble, if the kid is doing something illegal.

Yes, children are human, but like the cubs of wolves are not taken with the adult out to hunt, there is things children are not old enough to do.

freedom of speech,

Freedom of speech is weirdly restricted. But as far as I know, you are allowed to say whatever you want. Well, almost.
right to bear arms

Just saw a documantary about children learning how to use weapons from the age of three in the US... In DK, it is pretty much illegal to bear arms at all.
and earn a wages from doing something besides house chores

I think I have answered that one.
Programpro
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Programpro
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Nomad

Oh my god, people, think about what you are saying...

Firstly, to compare the &quotlight of children" to the enslavement of African Americans is simply preposterous! Children will grow into adults, but in slave times the slaves couldn't just wait 10 years until they were white...they were forced to work for their whole lives. Also, they were treated like cattle and wealth. The children in America are given many freedoms (which is more than can be said for many other countries), maybe even too many. Children/Teens aren't adults...they're children. They're less mature, less developed, and most importantly LESS TALL!! Okay, that's not most important...but I know that, when I was 13, I thought that kids had it good, and on this topic I thought those for "Child Rights" were ignorant fools.

And on the subject of school, you don't just learn the stuff because the stuff is important (which, admittably, some isn't). You learn it because it teaches discipline, responsibility, and the value of hard work. Did you notice how those who get bad grades tend to do worse in life (unless they look good, but that's another topic entirely)? It's not because they got bad grades that they did worse. It's because they didn't apply themselves and put effort into developing a future. What you get out of school -- responsibility, discipline, respect -- all depends on what you put in.

Children aren't the same as adults. No, that not the same as saying "blacks are different from whites," because children really are different; Different in thinking, feeling, and learning. Children aren't the same as adults, period.

Oh, and I don't know if this topic has been brought to the debate yet, but parents have full rights over their children (like right to violate privacy). As long as they don't abuse the kid (sexually, or otherwise), they are the final word.

Mike412
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Mike412
332 posts
Nomad

importantly LESS TALL!!

15 years old and 6 foot, I'd say that points pretty much null.

They're less mature

Generalization, not strictly true in all cases.

You learn it because it teaches discipline, responsibility, and the value of hard work

There's an old fashioned view of school. Quite honestly, I agree with responsibility, but discipline and the value of hard work isn't emphasized as much as just passing classes. It doesn't matter if a kid spent 6 hours working on a project, trying to do the best they can, while another one spent 15 minutes and simply because they're "smarter" they got a better grade since they're project looks better. Discipline has become the enemy to many kids, because of the way its treated. You do something bad, you get punished. That may have worked when most were still obedient to there parents, but now whenever some people are punished it doesn't make them change, it simply makes them angry, and has no impact on changing them.

Different in thinking, feeling, and learning. Children aren't the same as adults, period.

Different isn't bad.
Most kids aren't incredibly greedy and obsessed with money, unfortunately many adults are. We have adults that think only of themselves and think from that viewpoint, but you have kids that are willing to accept and learn new things, and often are more willing to help others than themselves. We're different, yes, but that doesn't mean with we're lower down.

[/i]Oh, and I don't know if this topic has been brought to the debate yet, but parents have full rights over their children (like right to violate privacy). As long as they don't abuse the kid (sexually, or otherwise), they are the final word.[i]

This is part of the problem. In an age where information is everywhere, kids don't like to follow parents. We didn't chose our parents, yet they try to force us to obey them. We're forced to be raised by their ideals and values, often without say in it ourselves, otherwise we're &quotunished". Think about religion. Many parents end up forcing their kids into religion. The child doesn't necessarily believe in it, but they have to become religious or risk angering their parents. This may be good in some cases and promote safety in kids, but all too often its not used for the benefit of the child

Programpro
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Programpro
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Nomad

importantly LESS TALL!!

15 years old and 6 foot, I'd say that points pretty much null.


I hope your joking...did you read my whole post?


6 hours working on a project, trying to do the best they can, while another one spent 15 minutes and simply because they're "smarter" they got a better grade since they're project looks better. D


I hate to break it to ya, but if you are smarter, you will do better in life...period...employers at a software industry won't go "Hmm...Jenkins is a super-smart computer wiz--but Steve really tries!" So, for the sake of the less smart ones, they need to be taught discipline. It takes responsibility and discipline to earn good grades, and grades are rewarded.


This is part of the problem. In an age where information is everywhere, kids don't like to follow parents. We didn't chose our parents, yet they try to force us to obey them. We're forced to be raised by their ideals and values, often without say in it ourselves, otherwise we're &quotunished".


WOW! If it weren't for your parents, you wouldn't even BE HERE! Besides, the point of the parent/child relationship is so that the parent can help raise the child and prepare him for maturity. Since your parents are your closest blood-relatives, and nature just works that way naturally, the job of raising you was assigned to them. FYI: Your Parents spent TONS of money and time and care and love on you, and what do you want them to do? Say, "Billy, it is against my ideals for you to chuck spaghetti at the walls, but since you may develop to find this action morally acceptable, I will allow you to continue...". Your parents know that they know what's right, and you should listen to them.


We're different, yes, but that doesn't mean with we're lower down.


The point of my argument was that different rules based on age is not unfair discrimination.
quickshift
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quickshift
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Nomad

Wow.. You guys need to quit whining and GET OVER IT!! Enjoy being a kid while you can! When you are older i bet your gonna be kicking yourself cause you couldn't wait to not be a kid anymore! you whining just shows you are to much a little kid to do the stuff anyway! and im only 15 and thats my point of view

Programpro
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Programpro
562 posts
Nomad

Wow.. You guys need to quit whining and GET OVER IT!! Enjoy being a kid while you can! When you are older i bet your gonna be kicking yourself cause you couldn't wait to not be a kid anymore! you whining just shows you are to much a little kid to do the stuff anyway! and im only 15 and thats my point of view


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamen!
quickshift
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quickshift
349 posts
Nomad

[quote]This is part of the problem. In an age where information is everywhere, kids don't like to follow parents. We didn't chose our parents, yet they try to force us to obey them. We're forced to be raised by their ideals and values, often without say in it ourselves, otherwise we're &quotunished".

If it wasn't for your parents you &quotunishing" you you would be a F*cked up mess right now! parents do that so you don't end up a kid that goes doing crack thinking you can do whatever the h*ll you want and get away with it!

Respect your parents cause im pretty sure they love you and they do that cause its best for you!! Get over Yourselves!

caucasiafro
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caucasiafro
338 posts
Nomad

learning how to find what X is in an equation that looks like this X7+98=3465-567=68*7 Is important? Out side of being a mathmatician why the hell do I need to know that?


Doing algebra increases a persons overall intelligence and ability to think.

This is part of the problem. In an age where information is everywhere, kids don't like to follow parents. We didn't chose our parents, yet they try to force us to obey them. We're forced to be raised by their ideals and values, often without say in it ourselves, otherwise we're &quotunished".
[quote]WOW! If it weren't for your parents, you wouldn't even BE HERE! Besides, the point of the parent/child relationship is so that the parent can help raise the child and prepare him for maturity. Since your parents are your closest blood-relatives, and nature just works that way naturally, the job of raising you was assigned to them. FYI: Your Parents spent TONS of money and time and care and love on you, and what do you want them to do? Say, "Billy, it is against my ideals for you to chuck spaghetti at the walls, but since you may develop to find this action morally acceptable, I will allow you to continue...". Your parents know that they know what's right, and you should listen to them.
[/quote]

Well said.

Wow.. You guys need to quit whining and GET OVER IT!! Enjoy being a kid while you can! When you are older i bet your gonna be kicking yourself cause you couldn't wait to not be a kid anymore! you whining just shows you are to much a little kid to do the stuff anyway! and im only 15 and thats my point of view


Also well said.
quickshift
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quickshift
349 posts
Nomad

Forgot to end the quote.. sorry

Programpro
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Programpro
562 posts
Nomad

@quickshift

I agree with all you have said, but please say it better...no vulgarity and insults. Just think up some good, strong-sounding language and use that.

I hate to break it to you, but you won't convince many people with your harsh language...

Well, since no one has counter-argued since my last post, I guess I have nothing more to say! That's all, folks!

LufffiStudios
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LufffiStudios
1,420 posts
Nomad

Children are simply maturing adults. They do not yet have very thorough concepts of life. Give a 12 year old a gun, he'd probably start shooting everything he sees for fun or start crying because someone may catch him with it. In the present condition, if children had the same rights as adults, it sure would be a hellhole. they may be humans, but they shouldn't be given high responsibilities yet, since they are too young to cope still. I'm not calling them dumb, since there are a lot of children who are more intelligent than the average adult, but their maturity is still something to be advanced.

Programpro
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Programpro
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Nomad

And pro-more-rights-for-children forfeits on account of their absence from the match!

BigP08
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BigP08
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Shepherd

I didn't read all the posts in this topic and it was probably mentioned before.
The name of the topic should be "Are Immatures Not Human? Or are you telling me that I wasn't human when I was 12 years (or is it 13?don't really know) and 364 days old and on the next day I suddenly was?

That's just to grab attention. The thread's about whether or not children should have adult rights.
Biligum
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Biligum
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Nomad

Let me make one thing perfectly clear here. I'm fifteen, so legally, I'm still a child. I was in the magnet class for three years, have memorized pi to about 118 digits, use vocabulary words that can confuse adults well beyond my years, and know a considerable amount about quantum mechanics and astrophysics for someone my age. So, yeah, I suppose by your definitions, I'm "smart."

And I wouldn't wish anybody the pain of me being unleashed upon the world with full rights, myself included.

From what I've seen by looking through the seventeen pages of this thread, most of the debate is waged on the question of whether children are mature and prepared enough for the real world. Let me tell you, we aren't. It is scientifically impossible for children (teenagers included) to be entirely ready for the world of work and travails. It seems to me (now, granted, there's a possiblity that I've missed something on some obscure page) that most people so far has been using generalizations about sociological matters and things like, "Oh, look at all the adults that are messing it up in the world, shouldn't that show you how kids are capable of doing better?" or "Hey, if you let out all the kids into the real world, a bunch of bad ones will get out with the good," or "But what about just letting out the good ones," yadda yadda yadda. Yes, I'm paraphrasing, but... you get the point. And then the rest of the arguments go something like this:

"All children are mature enough!"
"No, none are!"
"Yes they are!"
"No they aren't!"
"Yes they are!"
"You're dumb!"
"You too!" *blows rasberry*

Again, I'm paraphrasing (rather crudely, by my own admition), and that's not the point. And to me, most people that I have seen who have posted as of yet have rather good arguments. But clearly, sociological arguments aren't getting us anywhere. Let's try the science side, shall we? (Gee, a nerd interested in science. That's novel.)

So back to my (sort of) thesis statement: it is not scientific to believe that children can handle everything this world throws at us. You see, before puberty, the brain is much more different than it is afterwards. Alright, I'll give everyone under thirteen a moment to cringe at what they've seen in films about puberty, everyone over eighteen a moment to cringe at what they had to go through, and everyone between thirteen and eighteen a moment to scream in terror at what they're going through right now. (I'm joking, just joking. Sorry for my terrible humor.)

Anyway, puberty is essentially the training period that gets you ready for everything. If we send in kids before or during it... ooh, shudder. Puberty does a massive amount of work on us. It's not just making us taller, or bigger, or more hairy; oh no, it does a lot more than that. And also, I'm not even really concerned about what it does to most of the brain; the thing I'm really concerned about is what it does to the frontal lobe. You see, the frontal lobe is what controls decision-making, determining what a person does, social responses, stuff like that. And it is never really developed until from sometime between ages 21-25 (Oh, hey, whaddya know. The drinking age suddenly makes sense!). You see, if we give a large amount of people who haven't got frontal lobes all the way up where they should be before real decisions (besides deciding whether you want PB&J or ham and cheese for lunch), all hell breaks loose. I'm not going to sugarcoat it, it's bad. Undeveloped frontal lobes are the reason why so many teenagers do drugs, and alcohol, and break laws, and get into car crashes, and cause pregnancies at the age of fourteen, and so on.

Honestly, I can't tell you how many ways that puberty reforms the mind and matures a human being. But trust me, the changes are drastic. It's a terrible idea to allow children (who have not yet obtained developed minds) the same rights and obligations as adults.

Now, keep in mind, this is all scientific fact, as much fact as the idea that the heart is a muscle, or that cells are incredibly complex, or that... or that feet are normally used for walking, for crying out loud. Puberty is basically our second "school," if you will.

Oh, and a large amount of people have been saying, like I mentioned before, things like "Oh, look at all the adults that are screwing it up in the world, shouldn't that show you how kids are capable of doing better?" Now, the difference between the irresponsible adults and the children in this world is that adults have gone through this stage of growth, while children haven't. I'm willing to concede that some children might be able to make it, but I don't think any of us are really capable enough to do so. Now, as for the adults, they should be responsible for what they do, even if they don't do so. They're more like aberrations from the regular course from naivete to adulthood, who have made dumb decisions despite their capability to do otherwise with their frontal lobes completely full-fledged and whatnot, while we children are almost completely predictable to not have entirely developed brains. Actually, I'm pretty sure that no one has a completely developed brain until at least around twenty or twenty-one, unless they have some sort of disorder that makes them grow more quickly. In any case, those with that disorder would be a fluke (something probably like one in ten million), and they would probably not have enough experience anyway.

And another thing, you're complaining too much about it. We have got it made. Our only responsibilites are school, and anything optional that we take upon us, unless you happen to live in a dysfunctional or poor family. And for that, I'm not quite sure that there's any remedy, besides making the family work together to love one another or finding the adults some way to get a better job. Anyway, for the most part, our lives are immensely better than those of adults. It's extremely easy for us, and we have almost no cares in the world compared to what adults must go through. It will be over in a flash, too, just wait for a couple years and then you'll have decades to have all the rights you want and then feel terrible about all the responsibilities too.

So, fellow infants, drink grape juice and be merry, for tomorrow, we get rights.

(Sorry, had to throw in that last reference. :P)

Actually, let me finish with one other reference: it's like Marco Polo said when he has about to die: "I have not told half of what I saw." There are so many ways (as I said before) that we kids aren't all the way there yet, it's too many to count or state.

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