ForumsWEPRAre Children Not Human?

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thoadthetoad
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thoadthetoad
5,642 posts
Peasant

You know, this has been bugging me for about a year as I pieced it all together through rants in my brain. Ever since the slave ages, kids have not had full human rights in America. The closest to having full human rights was child labor, but that was something of slavery as it had tiny wages. Are children not human enough to have full human rights of freedom of speech, right to bear arms and earn a wages from doing something besides house chores?

Really, we're human too.

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DDX
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DDX
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Nomad

I don't know what my IQ is, but I know it's pretty high, but in my opinion, those guys are not human, and never will be. No rights for them!


FYI, IQ has nothing to do with being successful or smart, it means you can piece things together and make connections quicker.

I don't know what my IQ is, but I know it's pretty high, but in my opinion, those guys are not human, and never will be. No rights for them!


if you had a high IQ (Mine is 159 woo who cares? (130 is smart for accelerated programs, 110 is average, 70 is mentally retarded, 165 is certified Genius)) you probably would not have finished off that sentence with that comment...
caucasiafro
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caucasiafro
338 posts
Nomad

Full-on ork ould be foolish- I am talking about specialised classes earlier on in school for people who want them.


like AP or honors or work for school credit, which i heard some schools have.

The school here has, or had im not sure, advanced classes starting at 3th grade i think.
thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
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Farmer

165 is certified Genius))


I've heard 140 and 150 as the genius lines. Also, there are different types of IQ and it increases slightly with age. (Heard it from a study on newscientist.com or some other science site)
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DDX is right- IQ is just your capacity to piece together and stuff like that. It is inaccurate as a measure of intelligence.
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The school here has, or had im not sure, advanced classes starting at 3th grade i think.


I've been in classes like that since 3rd grade. Still want more academically in some areas.
orion732
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orion732
617 posts
Nomad

I guess this is an abortion post. Yes, of course they're human. What else would they be? Saying children aren't human is like asking "Are baby sharks not sharks?"

DDX
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DDX
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Nomad

I've heard 140 and 150 as the genius lines. Also, there are different types of IQ and it increases slightly with age. (Heard it from a study on newscientist.com or some other science site)


decreases with age actually, because you stop growing brain cells at around 23.

I've heard 140 and 150 as the genius lines. Also, there are different types of IQ and it increases slightly with age. (Heard it from a study on newscientist.com or some other science site)


at 165, you will be welcomed into the club where everyone is certified as a genius (located in Britain) the weird thing is that most of them don't have jobs because they may be too smart for their own good...

Anyway, according to Christians and such, children are human, even fetuses are human. But from the scientific viewpoint Children are still human because they are in the same species as adult humans >.>
GreatestSoloEver
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GreatestSoloEver
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Well Human...Yeah. This is a really dumb topic. Of course they are human. They follow the same Phylum and Class as an adult. Making them Homo Sapiens. Right?

Mike412
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Mike412
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Maturity is not based on age alone. Some aspects, as in fully developing, are correct, but to base maturity purely on the basis of age is exactly like judging a book by its cover (I know, way, way overused line, but it fits). You may see us as ignorant little kids, but how many ignorant little kids are you going to find on the World Events, Politics and Religion forums, putting up a decent debate? I'm not saying that everyone's better than you think, but you can't just look at one end of the spectrum. We had the arrogant druggies with no clue what's going on, let alone what they'll be doing with their lives, but on the other there are kids that are much more mature than many adults. If you give rights based on maturity, then we should have them. Experience is a different matter though. I acknowledge that in almost every field of work you can possibly imagine I have less experience and knowledge than the people that work there, but I don't really think you can use maturity as a justification for denying us rights when they're such difference among children

thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
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at 165, you will be welcomed into the club where everyone is certified as a genius (located in Britain) the weird thing is that most of them don't have jobs because they may be too smart for their own good...


That would be an awful club to be in. . .the unemployed nerd club! Woohoo!
DDX
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DDX
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Maturity is not based on age alone. Some aspects, as in fully developing, are correct, but to base maturity purely on the basis of age is exactly like judging a book by its cover


yea pretty much, but age is the universal measurement for maturity, which is why there is another phrase that goes "that person sure isn't acting his age" because people automatically assume that the older the person is, the wiser that person becomes.
Green12324
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Green12324
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Peasant

Of course children are humans, we don't turn into a different species as we age.

HiddenDistance
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HiddenDistance
1,310 posts
Peasant

Which is why I think that the option should only be available to childen deemed intelligent and responsible enough to handle it.


Okay, so what's the threshold, what's the test for it, and who has to be pay for the people judging the denizens of kids that want early access? The test can't purely be based on intellect either. I certainly don't want the government to pay for the program; they already have enough of my money, and I think most taxpayers would agree.
kielzanie
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kielzanie
473 posts
Nomad

Not such a good thread title...
But man, your telling me that kids should have the right to bear arms!!! If adults shouldnt have the rite, although they do, why would children have the rite. I mean, i no kids who got guns nd some dont use it rite. thats how stuff happens.
Ok, now your saying that kids should have human rites by voting and earning more money. Sure kids are really smart and maybe smarter than some adults, but i think that its best to wait. And if you let all children vote, how the hell are you gonna let kids off the street vote. if you seperate the smart kids from the others, then your contradicting yourself giving the others less rights. Its better if you just wait till you are older.
kids are already to work jobs, sometimes minimum wage and even more. They do this either to save up for the future or just use it to buy on some stuff. Most spend it on stupid stuff. But kids shouldnt be paid a lot. They should be taught the meaning and value of money and if you want money, put your work into it.

I mean, lots of people i know and i havent had the best childhood. We didnt live in a great neighborhood, we were immigrants, nd didnt have much money. When we were kids, we didnt need much rights, just to get by each day. Sure problems start from the youth and thats how life is. How are we going to stop that? Most children suffer just as bad as adults. Even if you go to different countries, this is true. But kids are our future, and they must rise and shine when they are old enough. This suffering will make them rise up and beyond for our next generation. But till then, you might not agree with this and it sounds sick:
they must suffer.
Srry for the long comment.
And got something to say to me comment on my page.

thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
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Okay, so what's the threshold, what's the test for it, and who has to be pay for the people judging the denizens of kids that want early access? The test can't purely be based on intellect either. I certainly don't want the government to pay for the program; they already have enough of my money, and I think most taxpayers would agree.


I'm thinking of it as a skeleton concept right now. Just a concept, not an idea to pitch or anything like that.
HiddenDistance
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HiddenDistance
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Peasant

Well, as it stands with no idea or infrastructure, I would continue to support the current system as it stands.

You can't really argue for equal rights as adults without presenting a full case for how it would work on all levels.

Otherwise, how would I know what I would be agreeing to? As I'm sure you know - I don't take things on faith

xtiamotx
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xtiamotx
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Human rights as they apply to kids... good idea. I think this is a great topic. (Which, of course, is why I'm chiming in! YES..it's long. I'm good for that! For those of you who slog through this and read it all, congrats!)

Let's stop for a minute though, and think about what we're calling 'rights' here. I see the topic going over things like being able to work, drink, drive, etc. Something I must say though, is all these cool things adults get to do, like drink, drive cars, own guns, work a 40 hour week... those aren't rights. Those are privileges. All of these things can be lost. There's no law that says when you turn some magical age that you have the RIGHT to drink, the RIGHT to drive, the RIGHT to slave 40 hours a week at a job you can't stand but have to go to because you gotta pay the bills. But you do, usually by law, have the opportunity to do those things. The privilege, if you will.

For the sake of example:
You can't even get behind the wheel legally unless you prove you know your stuff...doesn't matter if you're 18 or 81, if you fail that test, no driving for you. Beyond that, you screw up, you can lose that license real quick. You can lose your job, or not even find one. No one is the world is required to hire you if they don't want to, or if you don't have the skills they need. If you abuse alcohol, and get caught, there can be serious repercussions. Even if you are considered and adult by the government, no human being is going to look at a drunk driver who causes an accident and say, "Oh well it's his right to drink." Sure it may be his right to do what he pleases, it may be his privilege to drive and to drink, but ask your self this: does he have the right or even privilege to endanger others? Does that drunk driver have the right to cause an accident, or hurt someone? Of course not. His butt goes to jail. If we look at things realistically, kids do have the same rights as adults, they just don't get the same privileges until they get older. Some kids could very easily handle some adult privileges before 18. Others are the type that turn 18 and STILL shouldn't have those rights. I mean, really, some adults... well... they're nutjobs.

Something else we should all realize about kids: we try to protect them because we know they are the future of our society. If we don't ensure the safety and education of children, we'll end up with a lot of defunct adults. Society doesn't function too well when your population can't tell their butt from a hole in the ground.

I may be 'all grown up' now, but it wasn't THAT long ago when I was a minor. I remember how I felt and thought. I was an intelligent kid in a world of adults who acted as if I could never understand adult things just because of my age. Kids aren't stupid. I fully believe that because I remember what it was like. I believe that adults should realize that even though kids are still kids, they should be treated with respect and spoken to as befits their age and level of maturity. In a nutshell, I don't like it when adults treat kids like they're dumber than a box of rocks.

But I will say this: all that talk about how you'll change when you get older, how you'll mature and get wiser. It's true. Sucks, but it is. As I mentioned, I was a smart kid too, and I thought I knew it all because I could understand so much. What I lacked though, was the experience. I knew and understood so much without ever experiencing it for myself. In some circumstances, this can be a fine thing. Like choosing to not do drugs because you're mature and intelligent enough to know what they will do to your body. In other circumstances, there's just no comparison. Some parts of life must be lived and there's no way around it.

Most sensible adults could give a minor several reasons why kids don't get the same privileges as adults. There are pathological and social reasons galore. But think again, about what it was like to live ages ago. One, two, five hundred or even a thousand years ago. Once you got old enough so that you didn't have to be babysat constantly, you were put to work. Probably no education, or not much of one for you. Education, way back, wasn't a right. Or perhaps you'd be married, or even have kids of your own before you were 18. Heck, my grandpa who's in his 60's was stuck on the farm tractor before the age of seven. Can you imagine a seven year old operating dangerous farm machinery? Sounds crazy in this day and age. The bottom line though, is that society has changed. Our world and cultures have become much more complex. Way back when, even as soon as when some of our grandparents were young, you didn't need a lot of skills and experience to be a functional adult. Nowadays, though, it takes 20+ years for most people to learn the nuances of current social behavior and to educate themselves to the level that our complex society requires of us. Long gone are the days when you have all the life experience and skills to make it on your own by the time you're 15.

So for any of you smart kids out there reading this, stop and ask yourself yet another question. And be honest and true to yourself. Is being able to (insert cool adult privilege here) truly going to help me to become an even more mature, even smarter, and productive member of society? Is it really going to make me better? Or is this desire just material and superficial?

You guys are smart. Don't waste the time you have right now to a free education. Cliche, I know. But again, true true true. I have to tell you all, I'm a BIG supporter of education. And I'm NOT one to treat kids like idiots by sugarcoating things. School... it can suck. Royally. Being a kid can sometimes stink as well. Not all of us have or had wonderful understanding parents. It can especially be annoying when you're old enough and bright enough to see your future, to know what you want, but to still be too young to have the means to get yourself there. But if you're smart enough to know where you want to go in life, then you're also smart enough to know that the direct route isn't always the best choice. You're also smart enough to know that just as the world changes, so too will you. You'll learn new things your entire life, some of which will have surprising effects on you.

Don't wish to be grown up too soon, because in 100% honesty...it is NOT easy. Sure we adults can make it look good by being able to do and have what we want, but that is all on the surface. Just as there are some great 'adult' perks out there, there are just as many, if not more 'adult' worries, concerns, and problems. Please, prepare yourselves well for adulthood by educating yourself as best as you possibly can. You'll be an adult a lot longer than you are a child, and some of the choices you make early in adulthood can haunt you forever.

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