Before I begin, I'll state for the record that while I acknowledge the complexities of debates on abortion and the intrinsic insufficiency in attempts to delineate what should be deemed a legal right and what is murder, I am not fond of the rhetoric nor the actions of pro-life activists. This would serve as a good example why.
It has certainly not escaped anybody's notice that the shooting occured in Church. I will go further to point out the hypocrisy in using murder to purportedly prevent or denounce that which is deemed murder, though this should be entirely clear to you already!
It has furthermore not escaped the notice of the author of the article linked to earlier that despite being a "eaceful" organisation, the founder of pro-life activist group "Operation Rescue" could not resist the opportunity to air his hostile (and insensitive) views. And look, even Westboro Baptist Church got in on the action!
Therefore it is my hope that despite the significant loss to womens' health services that this signifies, that this event may elevate Dr. Tiller to a state of martyrdom, thus strengthening the momentum of (for lack of a better term) morally liberal movements.
Hend6: You are ignorant if you think you can blame all pro-life people because of this, or claim that they are glad this man is dead. If the Pope died tomorrow, couldn't I say that YOU are glad he's dead, even though it's not your fault and that's not necessarily how you feel? Also, if you're going to make abortion arguments, put that in the abortion thread. This is SPECIFICALLY for discussing Dr. Tiller's death, not abortion itself.
I think that if a woman wants a procedure done, with the money to pay for, and hospitals have the technology to do, she should be allowed that.
That's just an opinion, not an argument. If you want to get in with all us younguns you should follow the debating rules.
You pro-lifers aren't pro-life at all - you're anti-woman and anti-choice. You are glad this man is dead, because you feel sad for the loss of some fetuses. It's awful.
Can't speak for every pro-lifer, but I just don't support abortion if there's not a real reason (ra.pe, incest, health problems, etc). That's not anti-woman or anti-choice. And you are now judging every pro-lifer. How do you know we're glad this man is dead? I'm not, because it sends a terrible message, and abortions will be performed anyway. It saved no fetus. Generalizing people is not going to impress anyone. Get used to it. As for your link, I'm not going to go through that whole huge page, but once again, generalizing how all pro-life people feel doesn't serve as an argument. Maybe it makes you chuckle to yourself, but that doesn't make in viable in an intelligent debate. If you feel like responding to what I've said, go to the abortion page. I left a link on the previous page, but it probably won't be that hard to find anyway. Just one last thing.
You're all terrible hypocrites!
Right, because you know all of us, right? You know our religions, our beliefs, and our standpoints on every issue. EPIC FAIL
but once again, generalizing how all pro-life people feel doesn't serve as an argument.
Very right.
This is like a religion vs Atheist debate, actually. Half the atheists shout out that the Christians are narrow minded and do not have proof, while half the Christians shout back at the atheists that they will rot in hell. The other half of the two groups watched with horror while the war rages, and because they respect each other for their oppinion, they do not want to try out on explaining.
Pro-choice, but still being critical against the woman. There should not be reason to get an abortion unless there is special circumstances. Especially as there are plenty of ways to avoid getting pregnant in the first place. If a condom breaks, there is "the morning after pill" (at least here), which should help out as well. Therefor I am sure this doctor only did what he did, because it was actually needed, and not because the women generally just shifted their oppinion, because if that was so, they should have had an abortion much earlier. And as it has been stated, it is legal, it is a choice. If it is a good choice or a bad choice in some situation, well, it is hard to determine, but if people get abortions because they do not have the responsibility to take the consequences... Not the doctor's fault.
This is like a religion vs Atheist debate, actually. Half the atheists shout out that the Christians are narrow minded and do not have proof, while half the Christians shout back at the atheists that they will rot in hell. The other half of the two groups watched with horror while the war rages, and because they respect each other for their oppinion, they do not want to try out on explaining.
Yeah, I know. I generally enjoy civil debate, but I just don't like generalizations that aren't even in response to a specific person. I have to call people out on that, so...
Yeah, I know. I generally enjoy civil debate, but I just don't like generalizations that aren't even in response to a specific person. I have to call people out on that, so...
We need to get more of your type. Though it is slightly hard to be thoughtful in every word in a heated debate. I have been scolded before of saying "Many atheists" or "Fanatic Christians", which is a little annoying when that is what people focus on instead of the oppinion I am setting forth. You are doing a great job, though. The side of an argument should not matter more than the opinions set forward.
But either way, abortions will happen whether or not we kill every abortion doctor we find
Yep, I mean, I do abortions all the time. It's really fun and bloody. You just gotta bring your own coat hanger and it's done. Yep, I don't even charge. Aren't I just a great person? I bet I'll be shot today That'd totally make my day
No really, in all seriousness he's completely right. There've been people doing abortions with coathangers by themselves or others. It's kinda funny to me XD.
The killing shouldn't have happened, but these mothers are horrible persons. They make a man kill their children in abortion, even though he was a deacon at a church. I have no respect for these mothers, and I would have been happy if they died with their children.
] WHOA, NELLY. For 1 thing, the mothers most likely have a fairly decent reason for their abortion, and it's not like they are pointing their crotch/stomach in the abortionists face and saying "ABORTION ME OR I'LL KILL YOU". Most abortion patients I've known also HATE THEMSELVES after the abortion. It's not like they go "oh it's okay, it's just a fetus! ", no, it's normally something a LOT MORE than that.
The other half of the two groups watched with horror while the war rages, and because they respect each other for their oppinion, they do not want to try out on explaining.
Actually, I made some popcorn and laughed XD. and then every now and again made a point that'd either be ignored or shot down, so then I just went to observing, and laughing, and observing.
Those who think that bombing of abortion clinics or the killing of people who perform abortions are justified before God cannot be justified. Truly despicable.
No really, in all seriousness he's completely right. There've been people doing abortions with coathangers by themselves or others.
It's hard to tell sarcasm on AG, but I was only saying that these radical pro-lifers that do things like that are out of their mind if they think anything but death can come out of their act.
Actually, I made some popcorn and laughed XD. and then every now and again made a point that'd either be ignored or shot down, so then I just went to observing, and laughing, and observing.
Hvae to agree with you there. I like to mix it up between arguing and watching.
Doctor shot in church. Nothing more than that. The reason for the murder of him could be "disagreement in way to do work" or something similar.
In fact this happens every so often. Case is usually a disgruntled or psychologically disturbed patient. But not somebody who expresses a political agenda.
WHOA, NELLY. For 1 thing, the mothers most likely have a fairly decent reason for their abortion, and it's not like they are pointing their crotch/stomach in the abortionists face and saying "ABORTION ME OR I'LL KILL YOU". Most abortion patients I've known also HATE THEMSELVES after the abortion. It's not like they go "oh it's okay, it's just a fetus! ", no, it's normally something a LOT MORE than that.
Just a rewriting of the above post. Not agreeing to it, but since people so honestly believe that the mothers seemingly are forced to get an abortion by the doctor, I thought "Why not". If the mothers did not want the abortion, there would be no abortion. There is no "GET AN ABORTION OR I WILL KILL YOU" nor a "GIVE ME AN ABORTION OR I WILL KILL YOU", and if people are mad at the doctor for giving these people and abortion, they should be mad at the mothers as well.
There is no "GET AN ABORTION OR I WILL KILL YOU" nor a "GIVE ME AN ABORTION OR I WILL KILL YOU"
Hm, this sentence may be misunderstood, but I'm pretty sure the former is not an uncommon scenario, most often perpertrated by the so-called partners of distressed mothers-to-be who absolutely do not want any part in having a child, and would therefore seek to force the woman to undergo an abortion regardless of her wishes.
That's to qualify the statement as to who is responsible for abortion.
Cenere, when u said that he did abortions to save the mother's life is partially true. Most women get abortions because they dont want the baby.
He ran a late abortion clinic, meaning that if the pregnacy would endanger the mother, the baby would be aborted.
look, the doctor know the risk, and he still did the job. i think getting his clinic bombed is a pretty clear message. he knew the risk and he still did it. He knew he could be killed. Im not justifying his murder, but he knew it could happen. He took a gamble and he lost. He lost and payed with his life. Though what people before me may be trying to say is that he murdered babies and he was murdered. A fitting end.
And even though he knew the risk of his job, he still did it, not because he enjoyed killing for money, if that were the reason, he would have become a Republican. He did it cause he cared about the mothers and their lives, and he took a great risk for what he believed in.
For any reason you should not kill people in churches and I believe that you can kill somebody only when is self-defense, so it's a murder like all others.
