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Zega
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Zega
6,921 posts
Peasant

Steps in the bible to reach heaven.....

os=2">(list taken by this)
-Love God
-Love your neighbors
-Do not commit adultery
-Do not murder
-Do not steal
-Do not give false testimony
-Honor your father and mother
-Hate your father
-Hate your mother
-Sell everything
-Hate your wife
-Hate children
-Hate brothers
-Hate sisters
-Hate life itself
-Give up everything
-Eat Flesh
-Drink Blood
-Be born again
-Your righteousness must surpass that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law
Jesus has no idea what the heck he was talking about!
You can't reach heaven..

  • 63 Replies
HiddenDistance
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HiddenDistance
1,310 posts
Peasant

I don't understand why I would need to slaughter an animal to please God.


A lot of preachers tell me that it's not part of the human condition to understand God.

I'm with you though. Even if I believed in a higher power, I don't see why killing a goat; one of his own creatures that he created - not for food, not for clothing, for no other purpose then to celebrate him? That seems a little quirky and odd, and not something I would be compelled to do.

Similarly, the messages in the scripture that I would take would be the ones most attractive to me; but I think the part I fail to understand with religion is.. if you're going to pick & choose the stuff you like, and discard the things that don't make sense.. isn't that just spiritualism and a belief in a God rather then christianity? Why bother with all the rules and doctrine?
HiddenDistance
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HiddenDistance
1,310 posts
Peasant

but when you DENOUNCE a religion as a athiest, or w.e its just stupid, learn to keep idiotic thoughts to your self.


Shocking.

When you denounce atheism as a theistic hack, it only makes you look incapable of *real* arguments.

Maybe before you go calling other people stupid, you should learn proper grammar and spelling.
Graham
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Graham
8,051 posts
Nomad

at my church (i'm forced togo to) they believe:

Humans are imperfect, prone to sin because of the devil. In order to reach heaven you must ask forgiveness for your bad deeds and try as hard as you can to do good things.

but hey i'm an athiest

this got your attention didn't it? >

Krizaz
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Krizaz
2,399 posts
Nomad

@ Dacer

people have somthing called opinions, i have mine and you have yours, i have a strong hate for athiests , thats just me, and i relize most athiests think on the same wave length.


Yeah, we all have opinions, that doesn't mean there not gonna be extremely stupid. I don't have a strong hate for Christians, or any believers (Except for Mormons, there crazy), I just don't like there style of thinking, plus, there extremely stubborn.

but when you DENOUNCE a religion as a athiest, or w.e its just stupid, learn to keep idiotic thoughts to your self.


Do you mean denouncing my own religion (Athiest is a religion) or yours?

PS. i not all that religious but there has to be some meaning to the bible, oh and in the futre don't post in my profile.


Not all that religious! Hahahaha! You make an argument just like I've heard a billion times before.

and in the futre don't post in my profile.


Okay.

annoying kids really... annoy me lol


People that are so stupid to not admit that a kid 3 years younger than them is smarter than them get me annoyed, it also annoys me when tehy can't think of a good defense and just complain about what I'm doing, not about the actual topic

oh yea, stopping the arguement, im to known for that.


So are christians (you), they never have a good reason so they just stop the argument, or they make up a whole bunch of really corny and stupid reasons.
Krizaz
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Krizaz
2,399 posts
Nomad

at my church (i'm forced togo to) they believe:

Humans are imperfect, prone to sin because of the devil. In order to reach heaven you must ask forgiveness for your bad deeds and try as hard as you can to do good things.

but hey i'm an athiest

this got your attention didn't it? >


If i were you either, tell your folks god is imaginary, meybe they won't force you to go.

Or tell the priest you think he's a crackpot and get the hell outta' there, also tell him you think gods imaginary before he starts his 3 hour long argument about how you should believe but has no logical reason why god exist.
Graham
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Graham
8,051 posts
Nomad

you think i haven't tried that? mom's argument is that it's "Family Time" and if i don't go then i'm grounded till i go to church again

turning into Athiest vs Christian thread, geet backon topic

only strict religions such as... pretty much everythin other than a few types of christianity (Islam, Judiasm, Catholic all strict) say that you have to do these exact things to get into heaven... lucky i didn't get into oneo those

Mike412
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Mike412
332 posts
Nomad

but when you DENOUNCE a religion as a athiest, or w.e its just stupid, learn to keep idiotic thoughts to your self.

Mmmmm...so, because I don't blindly follow whatever I'm told and decide to think about matters instead of accepting a 2,000 year old book as fact, its an idiotic thought? I'm more amused by this statement than anything else, seeing how you say I should keep idiotic thoughts to myself when really they're only idiotic in your eyes because of your blind faith, which would suggest that they really aren't that idiotic since I actually back them up...

i not all that religious but there has to be some meaning to the bible

By what grounds does it have to be some meaning? What evidence other than religious claims proves that there has to be something to the bible? For all we know a bunch of guys got together to write a nice story, and it got turned into Christianity. Its like someone finding a Lord of the Rings book and thinking that its what really happened thousands of years ago. For all we know, that may happen in the future, and that may have been what happened in the past.

annoying kids really... annoy me lol

That's just a brilliant insight there

oh yea, stopping the arguement, im to known for that.

I'm sorry, but when you post things like that and then claim you're stopping the argument, its bullshit. If you had have just posted "We should stop the argument", I'd be fine with that. Don't attack Atheists and other peoples thoughts then claim you're trying to be the rational one and stop the argument, because obviously if you read your own posts, you'd see you're doing the exact opposite.

Krizaz
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Krizaz
2,399 posts
Nomad

you think i haven't tried that? mom's argument is that it's "Family Time" and if i don't go then i'm grounded till i go to church again


Yes because we all know listening to some crazy delusional guy talking for 2 hours is to be part of 'Family Time'
BigP08
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BigP08
1,455 posts
Shepherd

@HiddenDistance

A lot of preachers tell me that it's not part of the human condition to understand God.

You're right. I mean I want to follow what I believe to be his words. I believe some form of misinterpretation occured with some Old Testament parts, because in the New Testament, Jesus cures a man on the Sabbath, which was, according to the Scriptures, punishable by death. But he also never sinned, so there was no doubt a misinterpretation. Respecting the Sabbath simply meant paying respect to God, not being forced not to work. I can understand and agree with most of the things in the Bible (that I've come across), but I come across some passages that don't appear in any way to pay respect to God or anybody else. The apostles and others that wrote the New Testament were not replicas of Jesus, and were bound to let their prejudices of that time get in the way.
This applies only to my faith, not all denominations of Christianity. I'm actually a Catholic, but since we don't rely entirely on the Bible, that's why I find it easier to look more objectively at it.
isn't that just spiritualism and a belief in a God rather then christianity? Why bother with all the rules and doctrine?

Well, yes and no. I try not to discard passages, but rather understand why they came to be. I'm not an idiot, I know that not everything in the Bible can be perfect because it was written by an imperfect species.

@Krizaz

Wouldn't God be punishing you for that, or do you think cause you just are skipping a few passages he will have mercy, god is not merciful.

Like I said, if God wants me to impress him by killing animals, I couldn't respect him for that. And yes, the God I believe in is merciful. I could be wrong, but those are still my beliefs. And if my beliefs are correct, God will have mercy on me for making a few mistakes with the Bible.
God would want you to Believe everything that he says or else you shall face death as a punishment

No, that's not it at all. I believe in heaven and Hell. If death were my punishment, that wouldn't matter to me. I'm going to die eventually anyway, and I tried to follow the beliefs. If you mean burning in Hell is the punishment, that's different. Besides, I know GOD didn't write the Bible. I believe he inspired people to write the Bible, so there could be mistakes in there.
at this point i would never trust god even if I wasn't an atheist

I don't understand. If you weren't an atheist and you think I should be following everything God says, then why wouldn't you trust him? No disrespect or anything, but I'm confused by the meaning of this.
some of the old commandments

Not at all. I follow all Ten Commandments (or intend to do so, but nobody's perfect) to their strictest meaning. The shellfish thing and the sacrafice thing wasn't a commandment.
Krizaz
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Krizaz
2,399 posts
Nomad

@BigP

Like I said, if God wants me to impress him by killing animals, I couldn't respect him for that.


But God does want you to sacrifice animals, that is strictly forbidden now and you will go to jail for that now, but what you are saying is a oxymoron you say
if God wants me to impress him by killing animals
and then it says to sacrifice animals isn't that the same thing, isn't your religion doing that? Aren't you going against your will?

==========================================

Now imagine this.

What if you were an Atheist. You were a very nice person, you volunteered to help the homeless, you raised your kids to help the poor, and you had done little to nothing wrong in your life. Suddenly, you died, fell off a bridge into a mound of rocks. What if you found out heaven really did exist, cause your there. Then God doesn't accept you cause you didn't believe in him an sends you to hell. You wonder why he is doing this, isn't there a middle, why if I do one sin, I go to hell for my afterlife, is God the real evil?
==========================================

Is that really fair, to be a great and helpful person all your life and then go to hell, now we think, is God the real Satan, is Satan the real God? It is almost as if God commands Satan, as if Satan is a slave. The bible says Slavery is not bad, so is it okay for Satan to be a slave to God and God be the real evil? If that is was God is, he would not be accepted in todays society.

Read this carefully, you may think I am talking blasphemy but I have a point.
BigP08
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BigP08
1,455 posts
Shepherd

But God does want you to sacrifice animals

The men who wrote the Old Testament believed that it was an honor to sacrafice to God. I believe that while they were following the correct God, they found odd ways to try to impress him.
isn't your religion doing that?

People have done that before. My religion isn't doing it now.
Read this carefully, you may think I am talking blasphemy but I have a point.

No, I don't think you're talking blasphemy. Truth be told, I have come across this theory before, but am quite interested by it as well. I believe that regardless of religion, anyone can go to heaven. You may ask why I have a religion then. I believe that the concepts of the religion will get you to heaven, but those concepts are, in simple terms, to be a good person, aren't they? I know you may have a lot of quotes to try to prove me otherwise, but I believe the goal is to be a good person. Therefore, I believe anybody can get to heaven, and that not one great and helpful person goes to Hell. This might sound weird coming from a Catholic, but I believe, and I've been taught by priests, parents, friends of my faith, etc. that good people go to heaven regardless of religion.
So if that scenario actually played out, God would be the real evil, I guess. But I don't believe that scenario would play out under a loving and caring God.
deserteagle
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deserteagle
1,633 posts
Nomad

I think I see your point. You can be the next Gandhi and still go to hell just because you don't believe. On the other hand you can be a horrible person and go to heaven because you believe in god. I don't see god's reasoning with this. Kirzaz I think you might have misinterpreted something. If you are a good person and go to hell you would think that god is evil and hate you, and I can understand that. But what I don't understand is that fact that you believe that Satan is the true "god". That sounds like some sort of Satanist cult saying.

Krizaz
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Krizaz
2,399 posts
Nomad

@ BigP

Why do you believe in god then? Do you want to feel better as a person? To want to know you have a faith? Do you think that believing in God will get you a better place in Heaven? Do you think that someday all religions are going to get along and are you trying to push that? Since your the first catholic that I have actually been able to get some of my questions answered, I just want to know why, from a catholics point of view.

And, are you a democratic catholic, cause your post sound very... liberal.

Krizaz
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Krizaz
2,399 posts
Nomad

But what I don't understand is that fact that you believe that Satan is the true "god"


You misinterpreted what I wrote, I think. I don't actually believe in God or Satan or Hell and Heaven, I am just being in the shoes of a catholic that is not completely stubborn and looks through these things. I had asked myself, is God all-forgiving? And I created a scenario from a unaffiliated persons point of view, I can say God is evil, I can say satan is good, it doesn't exactly mean thats what I stand firm by.
deserteagle
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deserteagle
1,633 posts
Nomad

Okay that make more sense now. Just one question though.. why only Catholics though? Do mean Christians?

Therefore, I believe anybody can get to heaven, and that not one great and helpful person goes to Hell


Ummm... what about benevolent atheist? I haven't read the bible in awhile, but I'm pretty darn sure you have to believe in Jesus to go to heaven. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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