After putting some thought into the status of our public school, and the intellectual presence of America on the world stage. I've come to realized than the majority of our problems could be solved with smarter kids and the best way to get smarter kids is to get a better public school system.
Private schools aren't the best either it has been proven that the children learn more but their morale drops and they aren't as happy in a private school. Plus public schools are cheaper....
Okay first off I have to admit that I only read the first 11 pages of this thread before I got sick of it and decided it was time to make my comments.
I was educated in public schools, generally I had no problem with them. Well I did have one problem...As my father once put it, I have a "hilosophical issue" with homework. I always felt that if it was school work it should be done in school and I shouldn't be force to do it in what was supposed to be my free time. I was always presented with the argument that there are lots of careers where people take there work home with them all the time. I am of the opinion that people who take their work home with them are morons. If you are so attached to your work that you feel the need to bring it home you should just move into your work place and save yourself the trouble of commuting and save your family the annoyance of you being home but still being at work. Anyway that is all beside the point.
I agree with the opinion that there should be no private schools but for my own reasons. Not all parents can afford to send there children to private schools where they will get a "better education". It seems extremely unfair that children whose parents have the money to send them to private school should be provided with better equipment and smaller class sizes then children who go to public school. It's not true that every child that goes to private school comes from a rich family, many families seek financial assistance to send their children to private schools but that just seems even more unfair to me. Why should people who want a quality education for their child be force to seek financial aid to go to a good school instead of being provided with properly funded public schools where they are willing to send their children? As for those who send their children to private religious schools, (and I have expressed this opinion before) what is the point? So you don't want your kids to learn about evolution or anything else that may make them question their faith, but a child can only be sheltered for so long. Eventually there will come a time when a child can no longer be shelter and they will hear all the things that you sent them to religious school to âprotectâ them from. The question is would it be more damaging to the child to hear these things in youth when you can help them understand or once they reach adulthood and find out that there is this huge part of the world you have hidden from them? It is true that the better conditions in private schools come from the fact that people have to pay tuition but private schools do receive a percentage of government funding. The percentage private schools receive is far lower than that provided to public schools but as far as I'm aware there are far more public schools in the U.S. than private schools (I could be wrong so if someone has info that contradicts me please provide it). But the fact remains that private schools do receive a portion of government funding, so if private schools were abolished the percentage of funding private schools receive could be given to public schools.
Personally, I feel that public schools should be provided with enough funding so that people (at least those not seeking religious education) don't feel the need to send their children to private schools to receive a proper educated. As I've said I see no point to religious education, I see it as being psychologically damaging more than anything else. As for uniforms, I will only say that I can see the benefits of a school where everyone is required to dress the same way, but since that is beside the point I will say no more about it.
I apologize for my massive wall of text but I feel the need to express my thoughts fully and for anyone who has actually bothered to all of this I offer you my sincere thanks.
If you are so attached to your work that you feel the need to bring it home you should just move into your work place and save yourself the trouble of commuting and save your family the annoyance of you being home but still being at work. Anyway that is all beside the point.
I'm gonna have to disagree you with almost 100%. People who take their work home with them are certainly not morons. What if they love what they do? I love learning about government and economics! As many of you know I soapbox about it here on AG all the time! Actors always do monologues in the comfort of their own $5 million + homes. The Pope always reads the Bible, always prays to god. He does his work at home. The only jobs that do not require you to do work at your house would be labor. And I would rather have an occupation concerning my interests than that. And if it means doing a little homework, then so be it!
I read most of this as well and feel the need to chime in.
As someone who is going into the education field and who has family members in here, I feel I have a decent understanding of the system.
I feel that homeschooling is a joke. The social activity isn't there, plus you have parents who are teaching their children. What is stopping them from saying that little Johnny got a 100 om his spelling test instead of the 50 he actually got? If I have to go to school for a minimal of 4 years to be certified and passing a state certification test, parents can do the same.
I'm not sure about other people but in my area, most of the private schools are religion based schools. So it isn't just like a public school but more structured, they are pushing an agenda as well.
Everyone wants to place the blame on the teachers when it comes to why some public schools don't do as well. Parents are to blame as well. If a parent is not there to reinforce learning (elementary level) that student will fall behind. In the upper levels if the parents do not force the child to do well in school, the children will fall behind and likely drop out.
It isn't just parents. Yes some teachers are to blame. Some people don't want to teach, only coach. I know my old high school just hired a baseball coach who is going to be a part-time special education parapro. What kind of message is that sending to kids? Every school has a point system. Based on the schools enrollment you get so many points to use. Each teacher/parapro/elective teacher/coach/ect. are worth so many points. So if someone hires unqualified people to fill coaching vacancies and use up those points, you will not get a more qualified/better teachers. Many of these schools rely on a few teachers to carry the NCLB torch to make sure they make AYP.
On the subject of NCLB, it is a joke. You are judging teachers based on whether or not subjects learn. There is an article called "No Cow Left Behind". Google that and read it. It sums up what NCLB is in a nutshell. If you do not make AYP (Yearly progress) for 3 years, the clean house in the administration and teachers. This is why many urban/low income schools do so poorly is that they don't reach ayp for several years, get funding cut, then have a merry-go-round of administration and staff. Cut funding means you cannot pull in the best teachers, and are left with the bad ones. And the cycle starts over again.
Teachers are underpaid. Even with 3 degrees (bachelors, masters, and specialists) you aren't paid that much. If you have your specialists degree and 30+ years in the same school system, you will make about $78,000 (in our local school system). Also take into account most teachers spends about $400 of their own money on school supplies. People could say "they get money for supplies". Yeah $75. Now take into account that at the elementary level you have to buy glue, pencils, crayons, markers, folders, construction paper, scissors, and so forth. $75-$100 isn't much at all. Then teachers have activities which may involve food (counting with m&ms???), which comes out of the teachers pocket. You have teachers being underpaid yet when there is a budget shortfall in the state government, teacher furloughs are one of the first things that pops up as a way to save money.
It is easy to pass the blame onto public schools if a child does wrong. But a teacher can do everything under his/her power, but if that child doesn't care and/or doesn't have parental backing, it is no good. The government would rather try and fight poverty or global warming or health care or wars than see to it that the school systems get proper funding so they can meet the needs of students.
With NCLB, teachers now teach the test. So instead of incorporating real life experience and such into lessons, they have to make sure every child passes so they can keep funding and keep their job. No wonder children are not prepared.
I know about the budget problem because I deal with it at school. On the school council but we can't do nothing about it, the government needs to cut back on something that wouldn't affect on situations going on.
I feel that homeschooling is a joke. The social activity isn't there, plus you have parents who are teaching their children. What is stopping them from saying that little Johnny got a 100 om his spelling test instead of the 50 he actually got? If I have to go to school for a minimal of 4 years to be certified and passing a state certification test, parents can do the same.
I agree. Also, a lot of parents seem to be using homeschooling as an excuse to not have to go out and get a job. At least, that's what I've noticed in parents I know who are homeschooling. The kid doesn't want to be homeschooled, but if they send them to public school the parent will have more pressure to do something productive during the day.
I'm not sure about other people but in my area, most of the private schools are religion based schools. So it isn't just like a public school but more structured, they are pushing an agenda as well.
I don't know of any non-religious private schools in my area.
If a parent is not there to reinforce learning (elementary level) that student will fall behind. In the upper levels if the parents do not force the child to do well in school, the children will fall behind and likely drop out.
That's not always true, but in my case it was. Back in third grade my mom wouldn't make me do the homework, and would say that it's stupid I even got it, so I just wouldn't do it. Then the teachers would get annoyed, and I probably didn't get as good of grades as I could have. In high school it's a bit more complex than that though. If the kid already doesn't care about school it doesn't matter what the parents say, they're most likely still not going to try. However, if the student does care about school, even if the parents don't, they'll continue to do well in most cases.
Teachers are underpaid.
In my district teachers get paid an average of $50,000 a year. Which isn't bad, considering the amount of time that they get off. Of course, the job is worth much more than that, but 50K isn't horrible for someone with a bachelors degree.
That's not always true, but in my case it was. Back in third grade my mom wouldn't make me do the homework, and would say that it's stupid I even got it, so I just wouldn't do it. Then the teachers would get annoyed, and I probably didn't get as good of grades as I could have. In high school it's a bit more complex than that though. If the kid already doesn't care about school it doesn't matter what the parents say, they're most likely still not going to try. However, if the student does care about school, even if the parents don't, they'll continue to do well in most cases.
If a kid doesn't care about school in high school then they did not get the support at home in the elementary level.
It is easy for a child to become frustrated and give up on school if they come home from a day and ask their parents to help them (even in high school) and have their parents blow them off. Yes some children are very driven to do well in school and college, then there are those who are lost and will drop out by the time they are 16. However there is a group that is teetering between the two, and a little parent help can do a long way.
I'm gonna have to disagree you with almost 100%. People who take their work home with them are certainly not morons. What if they love what they do?
If people love what they do then that's really great for them. In my experience though most people who take their work home with them could not be described as loving thier work. I suppose I was a bit harsh to say that those who take their work home with them are "morons", but some people need to learn to separate themselves from thier work now and then. If a person really loves their work enough that it never feels like work, then good for them but they shouldn't let it consume their attention to the exclusion of everthing else in life.
Now back to topic... @dms269 I don't try to blame teachers for the problems with public schools. In my schools I had some really great teachers and some the weren't great at all. Some of the teachers I had really inspired me. Sadly it seemed that some of the teachers I encounter throughout my education had just sort of given up. I was alway strongly encouraged by my parents to do well in school and sometimes forced to do the things I didn't want to so that I would pass classes. I always hated homework (see my previous post) but my parents pushed me to do it because they knew that I could and that without it I would fail. I was an enigma for my teachers however. Once I got to middle school I really started slacking on my homework, but I always passed test (usually with pretty high marks). I would lie to my parents and say I'd done my homework, we would sometimes have big fights because when they asked to see said homework I would refuse, occasionally I actually managed to fool them. My parents would go to conferences and find out that all the homework they thought I had done was never turned in. The teachers would always tell them how disappointing this was because I was such a "bright student", I always participated in class and passed all my tests. Once my parents and teachers became aware of this situation a system was worked out and through most of middle school I was strictly supervised in my homework. Once I reached highschool these restrictions were slackened somewhat (not much) but I fell back to my old habits. With the classes I choose to take it was not much of an issue, I devoted my study hall time to those classes. The required subjects however I slacked in. I passed all my tests (except one class and that's a whole different can of worms) but I avoided homework like the plague. When it comes down to it I don't feel I can put blame for my aversion to homework on anyone but myself. My parents encouraged me. My teachers generally encouraged me. My councelors encouraged me and devised schemes to force me. The fact is that I hated it and refused to do it. I wanted to do other stuff when I wasn't at school.
Wow, I need to learn to contain my thoughts. I be quiet now.
