ForumsThe TavernWhich came First, the Chicken or the Egg?

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valkyrie1119
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valkyrie1119
1,720 posts
Nomad

This is a rather basic question that I happen to find myself asking sometimes. What is your opinion? State which you think would've come first and give a good reason as to why. I don't know if there has already been a thread on this, but I apologize if there has.

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balerion07
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balerion07
2,837 posts
Peasant

And God said, "Let their be chickens." And then there were chickens and God saw that it was good.

Psychoace
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Psychoace
384 posts
Nomad

The egg, because a prehistoric bird layed it, and through certain conditions, the chick inside mutated, or adapted to a diffrent condition. This is how evolution works. So I therefore say the egg.


Iâm sorry but you are mistaken. It can only be that the CHICKEN came before the egg, based on evolutionary evidence...

First, you have the possibility (even probability) that the proto-chicken life form was also an animal which laid eggs. Given the going hypothesis is that avians evolved from dinosaurs, which also laid eggs, then it may seem that the egg would have come long before the chicken.

However, we should be careful not to make a CONTEXTUAL logical error, in which the same word is used, but the definitions are different. In other words, when we ask, âwhich came first, the chicken or the egg?â, surely one is not asking if ANY sort of egg (insect, dinosaur, etc.) came before the chicken. The implication is that one is asking, âwhich came first, the chicken or the CHICKEN EGG?â If the old question refers specifically to a CHICKEN egg, then we must look to the definition of speciation.

Biologically, what determines whether or not something is a new species revolves around the question of whether or not it can produce viable offspring with the others in question. Let us suppose that two populations of proto-chicken find themselves suddenly isolated geographically. Their two genomes will begin to drift over time, based on the pressures of their two different environments. Let us call the two groups PC1 and PC2 (proto-chicken populations 1 and 2) and let us assume that PC1 will eventually evolve into the modern chicken, while PC2 becomes something else, perhaps a form of reptile or more likely a turkey. At some given point in time, the PC1 genome will drift so far from PC2 that a member from each would no longer be capable of the conception of viable offspring together.

Now, this would probably happen gradually, meaning that there would be several generations of PC1 and PC2 that CAN produce viable offspring, but only with much effort and with increasing frequent miscarriages and/or deformities. Nevertheless, at one point there would be a generation in which no pregnancy would occur, regardless of the number of times attempted. It would be this generation that will have officially become a unique species (in this case, the modern chicken). The very first member of this generation would have been the VERY first chicken.

Because all of his older siblings would have such abysmal failure rates in trying to breed with PC2, it would be nearly impossible to tell which individuals had a very low chance of offspring with PC2, and which were completely incompatible. However, common sense suggests that there MUST have been one particular individual which was first born, where the possibility of generating offspring with PC2 was zero. Despite our inability to have recognized the individual, this organism would have been a chicken, while its parent would not have been.

So now the issue comes down to, how do you define the âownershipâ of the egg; by itâs occupant or by itâs lay-er? If the egg is considered to be a proto-chicken egg because the organism that laid it was a proto-chicken, then we must conclude that the CHICKEN came before the egg (chicken egg, that is). However, if we could say that the first chicken came from a chicken egg because it contained a chicken, then we must conclude that the EGG (chicken egg) came before the chicken, which would then hatch from THAT egg.

I would argue that the most rational definer of egg-ownership would be that organism which laid the egg. The reason being, that at the time the egg is formed, there is no chicken inside because it has yet to form (and what of eggs which are never fertilized?). Therefore, the owner of the egg is most consistently considered to be the parent. Furthermore, when we look at the human example of female eggs and what we already have defined as legal ownership, it is clear that the mother is the owner of her eggs. Therefore, as per the reasoning in the previous paragraph, one can only logically conclude that, because it gestated, NOT inside a chicken egg, but inside a proto-chicken egg, that THE CHICKEN CAME BEFORE THE EGG.
playaholic
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playaholic
1,098 posts
Farmer

chicken,but

i would really say cell lol

_S_K_E_
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_S_K_E_
731 posts
Nomad

i would really say cell lol


Any egg only has one cell so egg came first!!
Devoidless
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Devoidless
3,675 posts
Jester

Pfft, to be technical the egg did. Because without an egg to be fertilized, there would be no offspring.

Remember, you never said which egg.

Thus, I win.

Kookamooka
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Kookamooka
209 posts
Nomad

First came the cell, the cell formed with other cells to make tissue, the tissue then formed with other tissue to form an organ, the organ formed with other organs to make an organism, (which in this case was the chicken) the organism then mated with another organism to lay an egg.

This is my theory, so basically, I think the chicken came first.

KeedzAI
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KeedzAI
78 posts
Nomad

Your all wrong!!!!!!!!!!! Neither the chicken nor the egg came first. What came first was:
["cross breeding" + "evolution from the cross breeding"]

You all say or somewhat of you people say that it's "evolution". Now I only read 4 pages of this thread and no one said anything about "cross breeding". You all say it's evolution or the egg or the chicken. Those of you who chose evolution haven't given it a complete answer with a lot of thought into it. If it really is evolution then what animal was evolutionized into the chicken I bet none of you looked that up and neither did I. But I clearly say that throughout the dinosaur times and cavemen times there were thousands even millions of cross breedings between spicies which yes could cause evolution or it could of just been cross breeding or it could have just been evolution. I theorize cross breeding because some dinosaur era birds could fly and now in current times if you look for the same spicies it has been cross breed so many times that it doesn't even grow any signs of wing bones and it's hardly reconizable to it's ancestors it doesn't even act like a bird.

So it is:
["cross breeding" + "evolution from cross breeding"]

And cross breeding is possible without the involvement of humans or by any intentional force to cross breed. It all happens naturally if you just leave them alone for thousands of years. That also depends on the enviroment too.

Pau11Wa11
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Pau11Wa11
527 posts
Nomad

the rooster came 1st

KeedzAI
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KeedzAI
78 posts
Nomad

What's with the rooster?

A rooster and a chicken are two different things. However they are in the same family. But they're two different things this isn't a which came first the rooster or the egg. LOL

tomertheking
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tomertheking
1,751 posts
Jester

the rooster came 1st


Sometimes I think why I registered on AG...
thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Farmer

Sometimes I think why I registered on AG...


WE all do, Tomer. WE all do.
FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

Remember, you never said which egg.


Indeed. The question is explicitly, whether eggs or chickens came first. Modern chickens are thought to be descended from Red Junglefowl found in India, which has been domesticated for at least the last five thousand years; the chicken as we know it split off within that timeframe. Eggs however have been around for millions of years, as evidenced by fossil records.
goumas13
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goumas13
4,752 posts
Grand Duke

I know for sure that the fried egg came second.

TRUdog
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TRUdog
1,031 posts
Nomad

I know for sure that the fried egg came second.


AMEN DAWG! Amen...
Kyle248
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Kyle248
204 posts
Nomad

I think the chicken came first because greeks said that God made animals first.

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