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patriotboy1
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patriotboy1
238 posts
Nomad

(I don't think this topic was made yet).

I made this topic because people in the "Hitler vs Lenin" topic said they would have preferred this (Hitler vs Stalin).

So post what you think... I think Hitler was the better and smarter man.

http://www.noshame.org/scripts/yancey050429.htm

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=77830

  • 310 Replies
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

People he killed were people suspected of treason or any other anti communist/ anti government work.


Stalin killed anyone who either didn't agree with him 100% or anyone who had power. Anyone that could've possibly taken his place by assassinating him was executed. Of course he also killed army leaders due to his "not one step back policy" and other orders like that.

One of my favorite examples of how people displayed their fear of his power (I saw it on some WWII dictator show on the History Channel a few months ago): Stalin entered an opera hall to give a short speech. The applause and cheers for him when he walked onto the stage lasted hours. They had to ring the town's churchbells to make the crowd stop clapping before he could say anything. No one wanted to be the first person to stop or sit down. It wasn't patriotism; it was fear.
Armed_Blade
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Armed_Blade
1,482 posts
Shepherd

Or maybe he just used that "Germany FTW" stuff to justify his own lust for power. Either way, he was a bad, bad boy.


He didn't start out that way. He's interested me a lot and if you look into his life it is crazy.
He moved to Germany at three, learned a dialect of Austrian [already alienating him], was an excellent student and person until his brother died of measels, and that, along with his father's farming failures, turned him into a morose kid. His father beat him and didn't let him go to a classical art school, he purposefully failed in his new tech school, his father forced him to stay, and then his dad died.
Funny thing is, he hated is father -- and his father was loyally devout towards Austria.
[Seeing as they had moved, they lived on the German border of Austria, and many people still considered themselves German, seeing as it had only been a few years since the breakup of Great Prussia]
Not to mention, in his second high school, he got a certificate after two years, and one night, while drunk, tore it up and dropped it, which somehow got to his principal, who apparently humiliated the living crap out of him. He was then expelled at age 15.
Then he spent the next few years as a poor artist who got lots of his paintings sold or traded by wealthy Jewish merchants.

In a weird way, it all makes sense. Evil dad + Falling in love with Germany as an act of defiance + Not getting to art school and being a poor artist + seeing rich Jewish people while he's poor. --> Monstor Facsit Extremist Attack Mode

I think the guy with the rifle got ammo too.


This happened when Stalin made his Order No. 270, saying superiors shoot deserters on the spot.
This lead to a later order which asked to make a 'barricade line' with troops to stop the deserters. [Seeing as a communist nation doesn't trade, and at this point, they just couldn't make guns fast enough]
So yes, Stalin purposefully flooded his ranks with any conscript he could get -- and for good reason. Usually officials never made a barricade line unless they actually were low on guns, and when they were, either the barricade line itself would desert or it would actually find guns to pick up [Soviets died a lot, 35 Million casualties]
Although ruthless, his idea worked. Aided by a nasty winter, he pushed back a poorly timed German army all the way to Berlin in order to cement his seat as the leader of a superpower.
I think that it is no wonder that 80% of German casualties were on their Eastern front [and of course that the majority of the war was fought without Britain or the US]

I think this quote pretty much sums it up,
Commenting on that order, Stalin declared: "There are no Soviet prisoners of war, only traitors."


So still, Stalin
bravehawk204
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bravehawk204
349 posts
Nomad

Hitler is thought to be the biggest mass murder of the 20th century even though its Stalin.

EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

Hitler is thought to be the biggest mass murder of the 20th century even though its Stalin.

I guess it's because Hitler's plan for killing was all-at-once. Stalin's was less at a time, so it was less noticed. Hitler had millions basically all rounded up right away, Stalin killed a few at a time, but killed more in total.
killkid
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killkid
38 posts
Nomad

^ stalin had death and work camps just like hitler, the reason hitler is more noticed is because he tried to kill an entire race of people. stalin on the other hand killed mostly his own people.

MasterC2010
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MasterC2010
187 posts
Shepherd

I don't know much about that time period, but here's what i know and find interesting:

The germans invaded russia, but they never won anything in russia. The russians retreated further northeast into russia. Before leaving, they burnt anything that the germans could use. After awhile of this, the germans had to retreat because you can't win a war if your tanks are frozen and can't move (as well as everything else for that matter).

killkid
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killkid
38 posts
Nomad

they retreated east, not northeast. The germans wanted to break in russain line in 2 and take key points in the south of russia. as the russians retreated they left small groups of snipers and other highly trained personal for the germans to walk into. burning and destroying everything they couldn't take with them. The battle of staingrad was what got the russians back into the war, attack after attack the germans were taking stalingrad...all but 10% behind their barricade line there where massing millions of troops and tanks which they used to take back stalingrad and force their way into berlin.

destruction101
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destruction101
113 posts
Nomad

Hitler was to greedy, and beacuse of this he spread his troops too far. Making him vanerable so I say stallen. But it is a tough Arugument.

Armed_Blade
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Armed_Blade
1,482 posts
Shepherd

They had good reason to invade Russia. You see, Hitler knew he could pretty much obliterate the entire west. If he had sent boats and troops to the UK, I'm sure London would not look the same today.
-- Except, there was a little annoyance on his noggin, because, he can't just station all of his troops on the Western side, win a bunch, and expect Russia to standby on the unguarded border, can he?

He had signed a Non-Agression Pact with Russia, which wasn't really an alliance. Neither side trusted the other, and Hitler got a little spooked. So, what he decided to do, was break the pact and send his 6th Army hurdling at Russia.

It was a pretty smart move -- except, he started the invasion in May, not wanting to go in earlier, which he should have. He thought his 3.9 million troopers would do the job. Except... The Soviet Union knew it was coming, had industrialized, and Germany was underestimating them.
So it was 3.9 Million Germans vs. 3.2 Million Soviets. Then 5 more million Soviets join the war.
Germans devote much more time to the Eastern front.
And the Western front is open and the war is soon to be over.

In truth, if Hitler had won, he would have been able to pull his entire army over to the Western side and back into Germany, leaving much of Russia in disarray and putting himself at a very, very good spot. I think, if not for Operation Barbarossa, the world would be a bit different.


Stalin was really smart. He used the fun of early communism to grow his army by 150% in three years.
Hitler, still really smart, just got a little too confident.

EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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Jester

Hitler's overconfidence made him a good political leader, but partly hindered his military career. He was able to inspire a nation crippled by WWI and extended that nation over most of Europe. The problem was he overextended his military and was fighting a 3-front war (England, France, USA on the west; Russia on the east; USA and British troops in Africa on the south).

GoblinD
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GoblinD
322 posts
Nomad


^ stalin had death and work camps just like hitler,

Stalin had work camps and Gollags but nothing like the Nazi death camps. When he wanted someone dead he just shot him or sent him to a gollag, death camps are actually an economic burden unlike Gollags.
Kyouzou
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Kyouzou
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Jester

D is right, in Concentration camps even the laborers did no productive work it was just back breaking labor that had no point to it. In the Gulags while people died their efforts actually aided the country.

About Hitler's invasion of Russia, you're forgetting one main point - for all of his 'genius' he attacked in the winter against a force of equal size that was used to such condition. That's like fighting a polar bear in the antarctic while wearing nothing but a pair of shorts.

Armed_Blade
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Armed_Blade
1,482 posts
Shepherd

death camps are actually an economic burden unlike


Actually there is no proof of this. Stalin, leading a superpower, had some level of international reputation he had to save. All jails, death camps, etc, in the Soviet Union, Germany, or even the US were economic burdens.
I'm sure that nazi camps were probably harsher, though.

3-front war


Well, Italy did a bunch of the Africa fighting -- and nobody really cared about it. The only real front that mattered was Russia's. When he lost that, the other two fronts opened. Otherwise, the world would have been in it for a long war if successful German troops came back from the East and marched all over the West.
Armed_Blade
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Armed_Blade
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Shepherd

for all of his 'genius' he attacked in the


He was conserving resources for the German winter up ahead. He assumed that the poorly trained/equipped Soviet army would fall before winter. [Which, in the last few years, had equaled germanys industrial capacity, but I guess he didn't know about that]
It was ego, not lack of genius. It's just that after he failed he kept trying to stop the Russians, who had added another 5 Million to their squad and by then it was all over.
Wyrzen
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Wyrzen
325 posts
Peasant

It's tough.

Hitler had the systematic killings, but was a great tactician with blitzkrieg. Until he invaded the Soviet Union. But thats another story.

Stalin had a huge empire, but killed 20 million people...over twice as many as Hitler.

Lenin gets my vote.

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