ForumsWEPRHitler vs Stalin

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patriotboy1
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patriotboy1
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(I don't think this topic was made yet).

I made this topic because people in the "Hitler vs Lenin" topic said they would have preferred this (Hitler vs Stalin).

So post what you think... I think Hitler was the better and smarter man.

http://www.noshame.org/scripts/yancey050429.htm

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=77830

  • 310 Replies
ThePieMaker
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ThePieMaker
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Hitler was more evil, but, If big brother could become a reality, I'd go with him

SSWaffen
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SSWaffen
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Anyone with a little research or studying would see that all your "facts" are completly inaccurate and false @Drace.

German3945
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German3945
996 posts
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found interesting things here today whilst attempting to find the joke site on hitler being jesus.

things like this:

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Hitler.

many interesting things in that link, by the way.
Drace
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Drace
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1. Russia was not ready at all to be industrialized. Millions of people lost their lives in the process and many more lost everything but their lives.


What do you mean Russia was not ready? That makes no sense. Russia was a whole century behind the other countries. It HAD to be industrialized. Stalin feared an imperialist attack on Russia at anytime, and he was right.
His industrialization was a important factor in winning WW2. It is true, many people died as a result of the rapid industrialization though.

2. Stalin didn't defeat the Germans by his own. It is said the Russian contribution was the biggest of the Allies, but that doesn't really matter. NO single allied power could have defeated on their own.


Why doesn't it matter? Russia fought the hardest of the allies and had its lands completely devastated. On the other hand, the US profited massively off the war. They quadtripiled their production and by the end of the war, owned 50% of the world's resources.


4. You mention Stalin made the SU a better place. Even though the production of food dropped drastically.


What? Thats not true at all!
Industrialization might have been harsh but it sure did work. The Soviet Union's industrial production was increasing by 16.5% each year! US economists even feared that the USSR would catch up.

`The breakthrough wrought by the revolution of 1928--31 laid the foundations of the remarkable industrial expansion in the 1930s that would sustain the country in the Second World War. By the end of 1932 ..., the gross industrial output ... had more than doubled since 1928 .... as the capital projects of the First Five-Year Plan were brought into operation one after another in the mid-1930s, industrial production expanded enormously. During 1934--36 ..., ``the official index showed a rise of 88 per cent for total gross industrial production ....'' In the decade from 1927/28 to 1937 ..., gross industrial production leapt from 18,300 million rubles to 95,500 million; pig iron output rose from 3.3 million tons to 14.5; coal from 35.4 million metric tons to 128.0; electric power from 5.1 billion kilowatt hours to 36.2; machine tools from 2,098 units to 36,120. Even discounting the exaggeration, it may be safely said that the achievements were dazzling.'



5. You say Hitler was a horrible strategist. This is true of course, he should have listenend to his staff. However, this is also true for Stalin. He made several big mistakes, but they are not remembered because he won the war.


Well mistakes are always ought to be made in a war which requires many instant decision making. However, from what I know of the German invasion, it was not very smart at all. Hitler refused his armies to retreat or to surrender when they were obviously doomed and nor did he listen to his generals. He insisted on claiming Stalingrad for the sake of it being STALINgrad, but not with military strategy in mind.

Also, Stalin let his generals make almost all the decisions so we cant put all the blame on him.

6. Hitler didn't allow his troops to surrender. Again, this is ALSO the case for Stalin. Stalin went further and didn't allow civilians to run from the germans. Stalin ordered that everyone in Stalingrad, including civilians, had to fight the german forces.



This isn't true. Stalin had a policy of "not one step back" but this only applied to the soldiers in the Red Army. This act showed the desperate situation for the USSR.
Civilians were actually told to evacuate through the Volga though. However there was a civilian militia that was formed which consisted of voluntary men and women who wanted to fight. Even they were poor equipped with arms from WW1. I don't see why Stalin would order civilians not to leave the city, given that they could not be armed.

7. You count everyone who died in WWII as a victim of Hitler. This is so stupid. Would you say Russian civilians who died in Stalingrad who could've escaped to safety but weren't allowed are victims of Hitler rather than of Stalin?


As said, that wasn't the case. But even so, there is a great fault to Hitler.

Did he not willingly invade the Soviet Union with a huge army and bomb just about every city in Eastern USSR daily?
The deaths of the 20 million residents of the USSR were the fault of Hitler. If he had not invaded the SU, it would not have have happened.

He was directly involved. Did he expect differently than for thousands to die when he ordered hundreds of planes to fly over a city and drop bombs?

And how is it fair that Stalin is blamed for just about every death in the USSR? His blamed for deaths in Gulags, famine and disease but yet Hitler is not to be blamed for deaths which he had great influence over?

Hitler targeted specific groups while Stalin's killings were often random acts of paranoid violence. Not always though. Stalin targeted for example gypsies and cossaks.


And racially targeting specific groups is somehow more justified than killing random groups? And Im not sure how valid of a statement it is to say that Stalin targeted gypsies and Cossacks.
You just said his violence was random acts of paranoia, not targets.

And I believe Hitler targeted gypsies along with homosexuals and jews.

Stalin wasn't a communist and Hitler wasn't a socialist.


Stalin was a communist, though not a good one.
As of Hitler, he never meant to be a socialist. National socialism is another name for fascism, it really has little to do with socialism.
Socialists are actually very much against fascists.

And for the record, Stalin cost more people their lives than Hitler.


I already made my case against this. Death counts for Hitler are too lenient and too harsh on Stalin.

It makes sense, once Nazi Germany was over with, anti-communist propaganda only ceased to exist.
It only made sense to deflate Nazi Germany's deaths so you could show how communism was so much more evil than Hitler's regime and how gulags were worse than Hitler's gas chambers.

After the estimation of 6 million Jews killed by Hitler, Robert Conquest, a major anti communist historian, actually inflated his estimate of 5 million dead in the supposed Ukrainian genocide to 14 million to make the "genocide" of Stalin be worse than that of Hitler.
FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
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They quadtripiled their production and by the end of the war, owned 50% of the world's resources.


It's not like the USSR didn't gain from the war either. It cemented Stalin as a great war time leader, and gained him control of half of Europe, against their will I might add.

Also, Stalin let his generals make almost all the decisions so we cant put all the blame on him.


Only after the initial German attack, and his foolish decisions cost millions of Russian grunts their lives.

This isn't true. Stalin had a policy of "not one step back" but this only applied to the soldiers in the Red Army.


That policy caused the encirclement and slughter of millions of Russian soldiers during Operation Barbarossa.

Stalin did indeed forbid soldiers from surrendering. 'Hiwis' as turncoat Red Army soldiers were known by the NKVD accounted for 25% of the troops who fought at Stalingrad. After the war most of them died at the hands of the NKVD or in the Gulags.

but yet Hitler is not to be blamed for deaths which he had great influence over?


Hitler is accordingly blamed. Stalin on the other hand could have minimised the amount of casualties the Red Army suffered if he actually listened to his diplomats in Germany warning him of war, and his generals as to how to fight it.

And Im not sure how valid of a statement it is to say that Stalin targeted gypsies and Cossacks.


I'm not sure about gypsies, but given the tradition of their persecution in Russia as scapegoats I wouldn't be surprised. As for the Cossacks, they come under the group 'Hiwis'. The vast majority of them joined and fought with the Germans during WW2. Not surprising Stalin would order their annhilation.

Stalin was a communist, though not a good one.


Stalin was just in it for power. 'He was not a good one' is putting it very lightly.

I already made my case against this. Death counts for Hitler are too lenient and too harsh on Stalin.


I don't think so. Stalin's deaths are almost forgotten in comparison to Hitler, rightly or wrongly, due to the Holocaust. I suppose the manner and reason why people are killed is more important a factor for posterity than the actual number.
Carbill66
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Carbill66
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Hitler

Drace
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Drace
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It's not like the USSR didn't gain from the war either. It cemented Stalin as a great war time leader, and gained him control of half of Europe, against their will I might add.


You cant compare the complete destruction of the USSR to the ideological benefit of Stalin being honored.
Control half of Europe? GDR was hardly a benefit to the USSR, as opposed to the FDR's benefit to the Americans.

Only after the initial German attack, and his foolish decisions cost millions of Russian grunts their lives.


What decisions? And when you have the whole of Germany's armies attacking you, quick decisions can easily lead to mistakes.

Hitler is accordingly blamed. Stalin on the other hand could have minimised the amount of casualties the Red Army suffered if he actually listened to his diplomats in Germany warning him of war, and his generals as to how to fight it.


But Hitler is only accused of 6 million deaths? The deaths in the invasions of Poland, France and the USSR don't count?

As for the Cossacks, they come under the group 'Hiwis'. The vast majority of them joined and fought with the Germans during WW2. Not surprising Stalin would order their annhilation.


Many Cossacks did also fight for the Soviet Union. I don't know if saying majority of them fought for Nazi Germany is true.


I don't think so. Stalin's deaths are almost forgotten in comparison to Hitler, rightly or wrongly, due to the Holocaust. I suppose the manner and reason why people are killed is more important a factor for posterity than the actual number.


Saying Stalin killed 50 million and considering 20 million deaths under him conservative, while saying Hitler only killed 6 million is ridiculous.
adios194
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adios194
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Hitler wins, he started the largest war in history. He had more power than all the goverments together. He was a master mind and was very intelligent. Stalin was a scapegoat. He was unintellectual and is significantly less important that hitler.

evilmonkry8
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evilmonkry8
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Hitler

Armpit
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Armpit
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Hitler killed over 11 million people for no reason whatsoever. Stalin killed over 80 million, and mostly because he was paranoid of spies, but he was very well feared, and he modernized Russia and made it a more industrial country.

So, I'd say Stalin was the "smarter" man.

hojoko
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hojoko
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What decisions? And when you have the whole of Germany's armies attacking you, quick decisions can easily lead to mistakes.


Well, before the war, Stalin thoroughly purged the Red Army of all his best commanders, for fear that they might start a revolution. All that was left at the beginning of the war were inexperienced recently-promoted commanders. They had no idea what do do, so they lost. Whose fault was that? Stalin's.

Hitler wins, he started the largest war in history. He had more power than all the goverments together. He was a master mind and was very intelligent. Stalin was a scapegoat. He was unintellectual and is significantly less important that hitler.


It's a common misconception that Hitler was brilliant. He just had unbelievably good commanders. For example, the Battle of Britain was going great until Hitler took personal command of the assault. Soon after, the Germans were routed and the Allies took the day.

I'm going to have to go with Stalin, mainly because I'm Jewish, and we all know what Hitler did to Jews.
Drace
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Drace
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Stalin killed over 80 million


Just, lol...
How did 5 million go to 10 million to 20 million to 40 million to 60 million and now to 80 o.O
hojoko
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hojoko
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How did 5 million go to 10 million to 20 million to 40 million to 60 million and now to 80 o.O


Comrade Stalin; Saving us from Zombies for 65 years.
Armpit
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Armpit
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How did 5 million go to 10 million to 20 million to 40 million to 60 million and now to 80


The commonly accepted number is 20 million, but the real number is unknown, and it could range anywhere from 20 million to 80 million. There's no exact number.
Drace
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Drace
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and it could range anywhere from 20 million to 80 million.


No it cant.
80 million would be more then half the Soviet Union's population. I hope you can see how that makes no logical sense right?

Its more like 5 million - 25 million.
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