So, since my last competition was pretty much a discussion, I'll now close that and move over to this general colony discussion (the others are all specific)
TALK ABOUT ANYTHING RELATED TO COLONY (and beef burgers)
False, Black Queens are weak against saints attack or when the base is destroyed, the hover tanks can be commanded to charge and shoot the Black queen in the air and like I said it takes 2 shots from a saint to kill a Black queen.
You say I am 'false' yet you obviously have no clue, saint does not kill BQ in 2 shot unless the BQ is at...quarter health or something... BQ fire rate is faster in air than saint and that gives BQ the edge.
Black Queens have longer range but that doesn't mean that he will have more damage to the Saint,
I actually said that BQ's have less range than Saints...in your thinking that BQ has the longest range, I take it you don't really know what you are talking about at all.:L BQ beats saint if the person using the BQ knows what they are doing, if the person using the BQ doesn't know what they are doing then the BQ will lose because you could just keep the Saint out of range of it and watch it die but seeing as I have done this a million times, I can say with great confidence that Black Queens beat Saint in 1v1 no problem.
dude hover tanks cant attack air units, more or less black queens... have u even read the description for hovers. it says plainly, cannot attack air units. get ur units right.
If you press charge after the base has been destroyed, ground units will use their ground attack on air units, I am pretty sure it is a bug but people have a lot of varied views on the matter.
Queen vs Saint no micro means Queen wins/Saint loses
Queen vs Saint with micro Queen loses/Saint wins
Queen vs Saint with ground support Queen loses/Saint wins
Queen with ground support vs Saint Queen wins/Saint loses
Queen with ground support vs Saint micro Tie
Queen with ground support vs Saint with ground support micro hard to say
In practical terms saints always beat bqs. However this is only in 1on1. Change the ratios and things shift around
Black queens have more health and uses high damage rockets that kills the (Not so) puny marines that destroys some of the rarest plans that include lots of marines and Black queens
Idk how you handle your queens but a queen should never be left without ground support. Ground units such as hovers or chronites destroy all those puny marines. Furthermore bq micro is also important. Why keep them on hold blasting away at useless units that die to base fire? The units die to basically any ground unit. I believe it takes 16 marine missiles to kill 1 black Queen correct? Just 1. During end game when you have a war sanctum(s) or Solar panels your energy and manpower keeps flowing in. Not to mention you are communist. Part of your kills grants you additional money to pay off bqs. You already gain high manpower so 50 mp is nothing. Solar panel with 4 energy every 3 seconds plus your government bonus. That's 26 energy every 15 seconds. Sure it sounds slow. But imagine the demolishing time, the construction time of your bank/armory for a forge, upgraded to manufactory, and if wanted upgraded to Mechanics terminal.
sometimes the enemy spawns its weakness and its pure weakness is Saints.
pure weakness eh? well let us apply it to the battlefield. We are using the government communist(like we are discussing) and it is late game. Communist has the resource advantage due to its 4240 gain compared to monarchy's 3233 gain. You have units so u gain 4 influence every 5 seconds. so that's 48 influence every minute. close enough for a saint and its in your favor. A War sanctum produces 4 mp over 3 seconds. That's 80 manpower every minute. More than enough to cover 1 bq. In 1 minute communist already covers 48 money, more than enough. Also your gov covers 24 energy per minute. 1 more from an armory or generator and u get queens every minute. As we know it is very dangerous to attack each other. If you chose to attack my ground would have superior strength due to the additional resources. Furthermore the property of advancing units means they will attack with less range. And with less range means they will get shot first. Getting shot first means earlier death. More death simply means u fire less shots. However another factor is added. Bqs have very long ground range. Bqs can attack your ground but your saints cannot. Once ground is gone your saints still has divisive fire(attacks ground and air), thus making them lose. However you may counter using your ground units such as anti air however i have ground, in specific hovers demolishing those. Furthermore once i have 4 bqs, all anti air is useless. Another factor you need to consider is the Queens rate of fire. Once you get enough bqs, saints will drop like flies.
Black Queens are Generally a good choice but a bad idea when theres too many scouts and a few saints coming on your way, to avoid that, use Sakata MK-11s and not marines because there might be a black queen on their side attacking the marines
Ok now your mixing your chocolate and vanilla ice cream. 2 can play at that game ^_^
Communist gains money and influence from kills. Not to mention the field presence we gain for being on the field. So by the time its end game we should have a very decent amount of influence. Normally a post build has a war sanctum. So using this factor we can build a sphinx. Both of your air counters.... Scouts and saints die from sphinxes backed with medics and marines.
In theory saints are a decent counter but is not reliable in a 2vs2 between experienced players
first of all hey hank Second of all [quote]Hmm thats your opinion okay so lets talk Black queens have more health and uses high damage rockets that kills the (Not so) puny marines that destroys some of the rarest plans that include lots of marines and Black queens and sometimes the enemy spawns its weakness and its pure weakness is Saints[quote]
Err really? For one its a well known fact and these guys have been playing longer. In that part you lose. Also though scouts are an easy way of killing bqs tell me how many do u plan on making that late in the game? And usually you wont need a bq late in the game for marines. Im not sure but i think vs saint and bq if u can distract the air and ground attacks it hinders their speed? Not sure pls correct me on that.
saint does not kill BQ in 2 shot unless the BQ is at...quarter health or something...
Prove it mate, I do not see why you didn't watch/made one Saint and proved that answer was wrong.
dude hover tanks cant attack air units, more or less black queens... have u even read the description for hovers. it says plainly, cannot attack air units. get ur units right.
No dummy, I said that when the base is destroyed, the hover tanks had a chance to be commanded to charge to shoot air units because their main objective is finished and now their objective is switched to killing units, go read it again ***.
XD NOOB SLAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, time to take on my primary mission as an a**h**e, swampert ur wrong completely wrong srry, using an actual hover tank to conduct that experiment is stupid...... rather un-necessary......
nice to see u hank.... GS is looking for u..... he said something about "that time in montery".... anddddd 40 yes sending some ground is an effective way to distract a queen, slows its attacking process.
Prove it mate, I do not see why you didn't watch/made one Saint and proved that answer was wrong.
Look...The day a saint can kill a full health BQ in 2 hits is the day you sprout wings and fly....It is not possible and the only way it could be possible is if someone was to actually change the damage saints do in the code...
Queen vs Saint no micro means Queen wins/Saint loses
Queen vs Saint with micro Queen loses/Saint wins
Nah, wrong way 'round, you need micro to win with BQ because of it's range disadvantage and what not, if you can micro, BQ beats saint. (Obviously if we do not include the use of ground units).
What really amazes me is that, I wanted to talk about balance; and besides the small talk about the governments, you guys haven't addressed any problems with the unit balance.
I'm going to end the debate over Saint vs Black Queens. On 1 on 1 a Black Queen will beat a Saint with about 1/4 HP remaining. Now look at the cost of each unit: a Black Queen cost 30 Money, 50 Manpower, and 25 Energy; a Saint cost 50 Influence. You can tell their cost are really close, but the Queen cost more in the overall gameplay due to where it is on the tech. tree. Lets look at the counters for each units:
7-8 Scouts (both) 2-3 Sakata MK-II (both) 12-16 S-Marines (Saint, but can beat Black Queen) Gladiators (Black Queen) Grodtiz (Unmicroed Saints) Sphinx (Both)
So the die to the units. They decimate almost everything else. The Black Queens kills everything every 12 seconds, while the Saint destroys the ground armies easily. The only difference in the units is how much faster a Saint can be made, which is one of the many balance problems within the game.
A top player, like myself, can predict when his opponent is going for a Saint within the first 1-1.5 minutes. Even with this early of a hint, it is impossible to stop unless you are Monarchy or Capitalist. I know from experience, Saint Rushes will always kill Fascists, unless the guy is an idiot. Now the next question is, how does it get fixed.
The only difference in the units is how much faster a Saint can be made, which is one of the many balance problems within the game.
...how is that a problem yos... 2 different units, different stats, different tech trees......... by wat u r saying everything should have the same cost and speed and effect and attack AND defence AND blah blah blah as long as its all balanced.... NOOOOO, ill admit the game MIGHT be too un-balanced but this is an army-type game it SHOULD have imbalances, 1 thing made to counter another, 1 thing sacrificed for another, imbalance is gooood(IN GAMES)but yes, only to a degree. p.s. u were the onlyyyyyy one talking about imbalances...
I don't think you finished reading my post after you read that.
The problem is the Saint and Black Queen are almost the same unit. The Saint cost less, and can be deployed in 1 second. The Queen on the other hand take 10 seconds to make, which prevents it from being a bigger problem like the Saint. When the Saint is massed it's a problem, and when it is Rush it's an even bigger problem. I guess when you get 6 Queens out that's a bigger problem, but that shouldn't happen anyway.
The problem is the Saint and Black Queenare almost thesame unit
really!!.... how the hellll do u figure that yos.... i thought u were smarter than that... the following statements even contradict this one.....c'mon now yoshi thinkkkkk.
how r they the same...apart from them both being strong air units they r very different... i would rather have a saint case like yos said their cheaper and have longer rang but the bq is better when massed and a sait needs micro to opporate.... i agree a sint rush can be difficult to counter and 1 sait i hover 1 cronite and 1 spinx is actualy very hard to counter. but i think there should be a limit of 4 on one persons queens. mariens should cost 7. grondzit should get more damage and missile armor. gorund sacatas should have increased helth. and glads should have the range of a pride and 15% more damage to ground..this would almos fix all the game imbalance.
lol I love how u refer to yourself an a top player. No comment there XD. And despite all the talk about game imbalances what the heck are you going to do about them? If it is such a well known fact shouldnt we all just get over it? The longer you dwell on the unchangable the more you will become unchanged, for better for worse -40P2P XD
lol I love how u refer to yourself an a top player. No comment there XD.
I lol'd
I was not speaking about imbalances earlier either, to be honest, I acknowledge that there are imbalances but I don't really care, I just enjoy the game.
I was just saying that BQ in a 1v1 against saint will win. And thank you Yos for stating that that is the case!!
