So, since my last competition was pretty much a discussion, I'll now close that and move over to this general colony discussion (the others are all specific)
TALK ABOUT ANYTHING RELATED TO COLONY (and beef burgers)
@trying, sometimes I need to add and remove a post to fix a bug where messages were deleted from a thread but the 'last post' tries to link to a page of messages which isn't valid.
Still, I did want to let everyone know that an 'official' colony tournament thread has started. Please abide by the rules set by us, and then by those who organize the tournament.
"imbalance" means that a post is genraly stronger than forge
True,but only on some conditions. A post vs forge is actually quite an even match. However if you throw in support buildings such as hospital and generator, that throws off the balance. once those buildings occur new strategies form since now the battle is Romans/scouts vs Marines/Tanks/ AND Medics. This battle could also shift the other way. If somehow the forger gets a armory instead of a generator and has influence for a mod phantom. Marines, tanks, medics vs romans, scouts, and mod phantoms become even tougher. However what if the post holds out even more to a spec ops. well that's missiles and all those other influence units the forger needs to work about. Another concept you may think about are dual builds(what happens to post dominate users against their own medicine). As you can see, the battle gets more and more complex as it continues.
i see the majoroty of pro using a forge build...why is this
With pros it doesnt have to be the most favored just the most comfortable.
Basically. But forge and post each have their own role in strats. Though they are usually interchangeable, it changes the playing style of the build. For ex. Pac's spec forces rush could interchange post and forge, but this changes the style of the build. Tdh's build could also change into lordi's build. Same goals but different style to achieve them. Of course these changes may not suit the concept perfectly, but tha's how tiers in builds are created
well im not saying rushes with pins are bad. Its actually what most rely on in 1v1.
rushes and pins are actually quite common in pro 2vs2 and 1on1s. Most of the superior builds in both combat styles happen to be the ones that counter a lot of builds in the shortest amount of time possible. If there is a chance that battles endure onward thats when typical upgrading you see in casual 2vs2s occur.
not realy...asuming the forger is fac and post is pac. on tier 1 tanks and mariens v scouts and romans...even if the forger gets a moral win with more units remaining they will have lost beacase they will be futher down the tech tree case they will have sent more..... up to tier 2.. this is the only part were forger has a little advantage becase tanks, maerins, snipers, grondzit and mabye a saint will often be killed by aa, phantoms, scouts and romans unles the foge is not supported by an armory in witch case the sait will be hard to finesdh off...if a forge can win now they have won or even a pin can sometimes mean they can hold out in late game.....they as the postmoves to tier 3..(and long before the forge player will thank to cappies recorce gain) tanks kill sacats and glad while queens will destroy all grond part from glads and a saint of spinx will with some queens will blow away all air. this all sounds like there is little im balace seeing as only a lil imbalance on tier 1 and forge win tier 2 and post win tier 3. but post has so much money it dont take long to upgrad to 3 and when it does forge is rather ussless also as draco siad the suppotring building for forge are not and god as post case not only does mod sac have crap range and non misslie armor but thats the only unit...were as a hosp gives you acsess to non influ units and had more of them even with a slightly more expenceive upgrade saints spinx and meds are some of the most usefull units in the game ..not to mention..the poster gov gives you a bost in influ letting you have more units...and futher stilll...a forge can only realy be played as fac build with one tech tree while there are a few for post
if u think about it...just going on safe skies will fix alto of imbalance as wil low tech becase a poster has limeted aa as will find it hard to fend of air while a foge will always be beaton on grond becasue of the hovers.. sorry for dob post
ss or LT is intentionally ADDING a DISADVANTAGE to one tech tree, so u can not say it balances things out, infact its intentionally makes things harder
so true lol. Yet one thing i wonder is inflict if you want to mention how overpowered post is why dont you use it? Any good forger will gladly play. Point is 1v1 is based forever upon skill. Despite advantages between builds and imbalances due to the game being meant for 2v2 the winner is always decided by skill. So really just choose your favorite between post and forge it really wont haunt you
inflict this is ridiculous. You have about 40 typos on a single post. There is spell check for replies. USE IT
sait will be hard to finesdh off
your not understanding my post... Post vs forge or bank post vs bank forge is quite even. However as the battle progresses it becomes more and more unbalanced.
lil imbalance on tier 1 and forge win tier 2 and post win tier 3.
yes that is true. However as of tier 2 i believe forge doesnt win significantly like post does in tier 3. Phantoms just cost too much money. Outpost might as well dual build to counter tier 2 forge.
.just going on safe skies will fix alto of imbalance as wil low tech
ADDING a DISADVANTAGE to one tech tree, so u can not say it balances things out, infact its intentionally makes things harder
i have to support fang on this one. Game modes just handicaps/ gives an advantage to each tree.
this is also why the only time i will 1v1 tdh is in ss :P
Lol talk about killjoy. 1on1ing him in normal is awesome at times.... as long as er dont do if for an hour like usual XD
So really just choose your favorite between post and forge it really wont haunt you
well said. Do what you like. When i first started out i was a forger. Then i went to post due to the popularity of tdh build. Then got sick of it so i went back to forge. As of now i can do both really well.
imbalances due to the game being meant for 2v2
It would be awesome though if the game was still balanced in 1on1 and 2vs2. Something so that games come down to micro, not macro. Or atleast something to change things up. We've been in version 6.1 for a really long time now.
However inflict you have a good point. It would be nice if generator has units like hospital does. It doesnt even have to be a forge version of a medic. It could be like a less destructive missle or even some sort of perk.
your not understanding my post... Post vs forge or bank post vs bank forge is quite even. However as the battle progresses it becomes more and more unbalanced.
ecsactly...thats what i said [/quote]inflict this is ridiculous. You have about 40 typos on a single post. There is spell check for replies. USE IT
so sorry but i have little timeand my ipod dont help my spelling!
ADDING a DISADVANTAGE to one tech tree, so u can not say it balances things out, infact its intentionally makes things harder[quote] only for the poster in this case....safe skies...limets bqs and missiles...2 things a forge player wont realy be using. and therefore the imbalance that post is stronger than forge is evened out so that a post will have troubble defending agest air attaks. while hover will cause mass destruction. in 2v2 of ss this also makes team work more vital. i know that sound like in ss forge is stronger case the poster cant defend air attaks very well. everything i said makes forge sound stronger in this mode but realy air becomes less useful if the enemy goes player 1 post player 2 forge...this on its own defeats imbalance on this mode that if 2 player were to use that same build against players of the same leval they would lose for a limited unit tech tree. as long as that can be said, however great the imbalance is. as long as in 2v2 it is almost always nessasery for both players to use a totaly different tech tree forge will allways have a use....but this can only be said for a few modes and norm is not one of them..therefore it is a unbalanced mode...as is cw and eq and dog fight... do you all understand now?
However inflict you have a good point. It would be nice if generator has units like hospital does. It doesnt even have to be a forge version of a medic. It could be like a less destructive missle or even some sort of perk.
It's perk is generating energy. Like a bank generates cash. I don't think it needs any units and I think that the solar panel's Mod is good enough.
About the subject of Post Vs. Forge, I would have to say that post can have a major advantage against forge as you have marines to kill scouts and tanks to kill romans and even enough marines can result in making romans useless. I think that Forge requires a lot more micro early game if you are trying to pin or at least hold center against post. All in all, I think that forge has a major disadvantage against post but, obviously there are perks of forge such as it works a lot better than post in certain builds such as the forge/ops rush and fascist bank forge rush. I think that post beats forge most of the time if they are the only buildings on the field and if the people on either side as good as each other micro wise but they are pretty much on par when it comes to how useful they are in a full build.
In my opinion bank post will always beat bank forge since all the post units have greater range and splash damage. Also as long as the person with the post keeps the tanks in front and a group of marines right behind it he will always win
...no it takes more than that...but yes..and peggy...i agree but because hospital is overpowered by comparison gen needs somthing more..even a slightly faster resore gain would do the trick..per unit actualy post and forge are actualy quit even but post tier one is cheaper...leading to a mutch faster upgrade with help of being cap...so often not only are the same leval units better in post but post will often be 2 steps ahead
I don't think it needs any units and I think that the solar panel's Mod is good enough.
i dont think so. With hospital you have access to meds, scramble meds, saints, and sphinx. I dont mod sakata is so amazing it could counter every single one of those units.
Every single hospital unit use useful at the end of tier 3. However in a tier 3 battle mod sakata becomes pretty useless(comparison to hovers, bqs, sakatas,). With saints you see them pwning bqs, hovers, sakatas, anti air, phantoms, scouts, marines, spec forces, and the list still goes on.
sphinx alone is great at locking down air and units even anti tier 3. As we both know what you must do to counter it is use light units such as romans, marines, and groditz. However all of those are weak to heavy units but yet if u do heavy vs heavy u still have to sphinx, which is anti heavy which creates more issues. The only practical time sphinxes are vulnerable is when its being used in pinbreaks.
Medics is like the glue that holds outpost together. It restores their health and sometimes even creating invincible units(ex. pride backed with 15 meds). Having quick access to medics from scramble further complicates post vs forge.
If we go back to the discussion on each unit has a use except for gladiators and groditz. Mod sakata is beginning to look low tier then its costs suggests. We all believe that the mod is suppose to be the mirror of saints correct? You see saints tackling tier 3 units and it can even successfully 1on1 anti air. However the mod sakata is limited to ground(thankfully) and still is susceptible to it. Mod sakatas fall to hovers, tanks, snipers, spec forces, sakatas, and gladiators. One major thing i want to point out are the tanks. I cant remember the exact number but if you micro about 5 tanks and cause them to shoot together, that mod is dead. Sure you could follow up with roman stream while u get your mod up close with charge but that means your mod must be close to your opponents base(as in your already winning the battle). Medics can create a degree of tolerance to mods but of course cant prevent it fast enough, however it can buy the time to spawn even more tanks. The effectiveness is dropping compared to saints. how you ask? you saw how mod sakatas can be retaliated by tanks and medics. Tanks, we both agree, are suppose to be the mirror of scouts. However this time they can retaliate. Ive done some thorough tests with tdh against Capitalist vs Monarchy. One of the battles i've seen is His saint and marines, vs my scouts and mod phantoms. It seems like a even match that relies on micro, but what isn't taken into account is priority. We have all scene priority on a larger scale. Black queens. Stall Black queens with ground and you notice their air attack slows down. This is happening to scouts on a smaller scale. However those attacks do make a difference. As a result, saints can retaliate. Another issue ill like to point out is the mod sakatas lack of missle resistance. True noobs think missiles are for noobs. And also true that missles cost alot. However im beginning to think that The choice between money missle and energy missle is too much. Look at how popular money missle is for capitalism. Due to their perk, the get a free missle every minute. However you may say that each government has their own perk they could take advantage of. However no government has that same flexibility Fascisms building speed could change the tide, however they need the resources to do it. Communism could fight to survive, but as long as they have something worth fighting for. Monarchys bonus energy is technically a perk. But of course Free influence... who would pass that up. Capitalism's perk can be used in a varity of ways. As long as the user knows how to do it. Go ahead... call me a yos
But lets get back to the point. We are talking about the usefulness of mod sakatas. They do have a few uses no other unit has. Its almost perfect for countering sphinxes. As long as it has minimal back p, The mod sakata can take out the sphinx. It can also take out tier 2 and lower units as long as your opponent doesn't micro. Its also vulnerable to missiles, so as a result it forces your opponent who uses missiles to immediately save up.
So lets go further back to my post. I said that the issue between hosp vs gen is the units.
tier (1) Medics and scamble medics vs NOTHING advantage goes to hospital
Tier (2) Medics,Scramble medics, Saint, sphinx VS modified sakata ill let you decide the winner
This issue brings us to another problem. If we attempt balance out this game what will happen?
If we attempt to and fail, this game will have a shift in popularity of governments and as a result people should adapt to those governments. As of now we are unbalanced. By definition and by krins designing skills. We wont be any more unbalanced, just flipped. And besides isn't everyone looking for a change? Whoohooo colony 2 right?
If we attempt to and succeed. This game will have no shift in popular governments and everyone would just choose their favorite government. Games will come down to micro. Not macro.
So why not give it a try and go for some change?
So what are potential solutions? 1.Balancing out the sides
2.Adding units to generator. something with significance of a sphinx or usefulness of a med, but not copies in generator form. If not give a extra perk. Inflict's idea of extra energy seems ok for now. but we wouldn't know till we try.
3. removing bugs in units such as priority. We need units to cause damage, not prevent it.
4. Finding out what exactly are the issues with fascism and communism. Anyone else curious of seeing post units build at a faster speed and forge units kill for money?
5. we have to experiment. Krin gave us a very closely balanced game. However after what... 11 months? almost a year we finally found the issues. Might as well scramble the jig saw puzzle and lets do it again.
[quote]People are starting to understand what I have been saying for many months.
then you need to learn how to use words properly XD
however the decisive skill" in this game is TEAM WORK,
the winner is always decided by skill
i wouldnt say always. As of now monarchy and capitalism is decided by skill. Fascism and communist have a slight, unfair handicap.
in this game is TEAM WORK
Now if you start thinking about it teamwork is important. However i believe a team should work at 50% you and 50% me not 60% you and 40% me.
P.s. please excuse any typos and unorganized thoughts. i didn't proof read this XD
lol this better not take its own page. Maybe i should change my username to something with longcat.... too long for one post XD
