As some of you may know, I am a Catholic who has considered, on numerous occasions, the possibility that my religion may be incorrect, and maybe there is no correct religion. In most cases, I will cease debate and turn into discussion mode while I seek some answers. In most cases, personal experience wins me over, and what may appear to be coincidence on the outside appears to me as God showing me he exists. I've looked at every single one of them, and while they seem like improbable and personally moving coincidences, how improbable and moving was the formation of our universe? I've never been a Christian who believed that only through a believer's eyes could the world be beautiful; but now I finally can see the beauty of the world through more atheistic eyes. Like the stereotypical Christian, I am very conservative and reflective, and I will probably continue to be that way no matter what I choose to believe. But I am very concerned with the content of my own Bible. I'm not stupid; I've always known there were mentions of slavery as an everyday thing and women as inferior, but I've always been able to rationalize that the Bible was not written by God. Men wrote it, inspired by God, and the events, not the in-between pre-industrial male attitude, were what I needed to listen to. But even now I wonder why the Old Testament is so foul and cruel, and why even parts of the New Testament are so sexist. Even if Jesus hadn't died for our sins, wouldn't God want to create the world that he hopes to see one day, not smite the world until his son was born?
In this thread, I seek for Christians to justify the Bible. I don't have quotes on hand, but those of you who have read the Bible should know which ones I speak of. I will pop in once in a while with a quote I have a question about. In this thread, I will debate as an Atheist. In any other thread, for the time being, I will debate as a Christian. The reason I made this thread is simple: when I debate with atheists, I get a one-sided view to take in. But if I debate with Christians, I can get an actual balance. I am not ashamed to admit that my faith falters. It won't change my character whether I am right or wrong about religion. But when this much doubt surrounds my mind, I am simply curious.
I am a child, so I am not making any official decisions until adulthood. I want to take in the possibilities for the next few years, officially, and debate with Christians to see if I can win. Anyone is welcome in this thread, but it is mainly for Christians to defend the Bible, not a Christianity vs Atheism thread. I know there are threads on the Bible, but I want to use specific Bible quotes, rather than generalize the entire thing.
This doesn't really solve the issue of the question at hand. You know some of it's false and the best you can do is guess work to work out what's what.
It's not total guesswork. There are other sections of the bible which are more clear. However that's not the point.
This again doesn't really answer the question at hand. If we can make it mean pretty much what ever we want it to mean then what true value can it hold?
If this is how the Bible works then I could take pretty much any text and come up with morals and guides to live by.
Religion is a highly personal thing. The reason so many people believe in it, is because there are passages and sections that are more appealing to some people depending on the circumstances. If the entire bible was clear cut, would everyone not be fundmanetal Christians, and all worship Christ for the same reasons?
Yes they probably would. But that isn't the case. There doesn't have to be an absolute truth in the bible for the bible to have meaning. Plenty of atheists I know, are very knowledgable on the bible and have learnt valuable lessons from it, even though they don't actually believe in God.
As an aside, there are sections of the bible that have more reliable translations. The 10 commandments for example were written in the original Hebrew, and so those are 100% the word of God, (if you believe of course).
''When competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selection of the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities while still sufficiently answering the question.''
That's a pretty major principle, and postulating ''God did it'' creates the assumption that God exists, along with a ton of other things raised by that assumption.
I won't go into them all now, but suffice to say that logic does not say that God is the best answer.
That's a pretty major principle, and postulating ''God did it'' creates the assumption that God exists, along with a ton of other things raised by that assumption.
I won't go into them all now, but suffice to say that logic does not say that God is the best answer.
I agree. I dont believe in God. Im my mind there is no doubt. Im thinking more along a very real sense of dimensions etc. Even aliens. I mean... why not. Why do so many people believe in God and spurn the idea of other life.
I dont REALLY know if there is no god, but then I dont REALLY know if everythings real. Its getting a bit philosophical but I guess I made a decision that I quite like being in this reality and wasnt gonna go crazy and loose my grip. The I decided that Aliens are a lot more likely than God... any god. And As I mentioned I dont just confine this to the dimensions we can percieve.
I guess we gotta assume alot of things exist, even tho we dont see them or percieve them. And I think you, just like me, are not prepared to believe in something as illogical as GOD. But would you agree that its logical other life, even intelligent life, may be out there somewhere.
But would you agree that its logical other life, even intelligent life, may be out there somewhere.
That's because we have logic, in the form of mathematical probablity that suggests that. Common logic does not however dictate that God exists, in fact, that is the least likely of all options.
Common logic does not however dictate that God exists, in fact, that is the least likely of all options.
Yep. I fully agree. But why does the human race choose the most incocievable thing and follow it for a very long time. There must be some truth to the story. The truth is out there *cue x-files musik*
But why does the human race choose the most incocievable thing and follow it for a very long time.
The belief in the afterlife offers comfort to many people, and was the common theme which tied communities together.
Just because mankind has held beliefs for an extended period of time does not necessarily make them correct. People thought the Earth used to flat, as one example.
Just because mankind has held beliefs for an extended period of time does not necessarily make them correct. People thought the Earth used to flat, as one example.
This isnt just some simple belief. It pops up in all religion on seperate continents in different time periods. Im not saying the belief is correct because of a sustained and ingrained cultural history... but we dont get these stories from nowhere. And people didnt ONLY believe the earth was flat. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth]
If you can show me one shred of empirical evidence indicating the existence of a God, I would be very grateful.
The idea of a deity came from the human psyche. Humans have been around for a long time, so have believed in Gods for a very long time. That doesn't make it true.
By the way, anybody who wants to bring up a Bible quote they'd like to scrutinize is free to do so; however, this shouldn't turn into a repeat of "Calling all Christians". It should be to discuss the validity of the Christian Bible.
And I won't be here tomorrow, so don't expect me to make posts in this thread for a while.
