As some of you may know, I am a Catholic who has considered, on numerous occasions, the possibility that my religion may be incorrect, and maybe there is no correct religion. In most cases, I will cease debate and turn into discussion mode while I seek some answers. In most cases, personal experience wins me over, and what may appear to be coincidence on the outside appears to me as God showing me he exists. I've looked at every single one of them, and while they seem like improbable and personally moving coincidences, how improbable and moving was the formation of our universe? I've never been a Christian who believed that only through a believer's eyes could the world be beautiful; but now I finally can see the beauty of the world through more atheistic eyes. Like the stereotypical Christian, I am very conservative and reflective, and I will probably continue to be that way no matter what I choose to believe. But I am very concerned with the content of my own Bible. I'm not stupid; I've always known there were mentions of slavery as an everyday thing and women as inferior, but I've always been able to rationalize that the Bible was not written by God. Men wrote it, inspired by God, and the events, not the in-between pre-industrial male attitude, were what I needed to listen to. But even now I wonder why the Old Testament is so foul and cruel, and why even parts of the New Testament are so sexist. Even if Jesus hadn't died for our sins, wouldn't God want to create the world that he hopes to see one day, not smite the world until his son was born?
In this thread, I seek for Christians to justify the Bible. I don't have quotes on hand, but those of you who have read the Bible should know which ones I speak of. I will pop in once in a while with a quote I have a question about. In this thread, I will debate as an Atheist. In any other thread, for the time being, I will debate as a Christian. The reason I made this thread is simple: when I debate with atheists, I get a one-sided view to take in. But if I debate with Christians, I can get an actual balance. I am not ashamed to admit that my faith falters. It won't change my character whether I am right or wrong about religion. But when this much doubt surrounds my mind, I am simply curious.
I am a child, so I am not making any official decisions until adulthood. I want to take in the possibilities for the next few years, officially, and debate with Christians to see if I can win. Anyone is welcome in this thread, but it is mainly for Christians to defend the Bible, not a Christianity vs Atheism thread. I know there are threads on the Bible, but I want to use specific Bible quotes, rather than generalize the entire thing.
Then is it so hard to believe God could project his thoughts and feelings into a person he is having transcribe the Bible?
No. But it is hard to believe that if God did project thoughts and feelings into a person transcribing the Bible that he would allow contradictions, sexism, racism, and other evil to enter the Bible.
Unfortunately for my athiest and agnostic crowd, I have recently fortified my Christian beliefs. These are now stronger than ever. So my discussions should be a bit more interesting and thought-provoking, and I'll try to update this thread whenever I have biblical quotes to discuss in an athiestic way, but I'm still Catholic for now. As I said before, I'm coming to an official resolution as an adult, but this is my temporary belief for now. It's been interesting discussions, and you guys have definitely helped me think outside the box. Good news for my Christian friends, though: you may see me around the Christian forums more often. Although, some of the beliefs I present might not appeal to everyone. Sorry.
If you can show me one shred of empirical evidence indicating the existence of a God, I would be very grateful.
The truth is I dont need to, nor want to (ok im byest against gods existance) but I just think we are fundamentaly missing some peice of the puzzle. I feel like a baby whos carer has hidden half the jigsaw puzzle. But maybe thats just human thirst for knowledge and completness... meh!
And as for god not needing to be perfect, I thought that was the whole point that is put across... yknow, god has a plan but we have free will, god is absolute and infallible but skrews up... this makes no sense to me, and to ignore that you must have gone thru some serious religious experience. I would be genuinely interested as to what caused your strenghtened belief, and I admit I am skeptical I will agree.
I will quite simply answer your first question. The bible is made up of many different books as you know. Each book was written by a person yes? Well, after jeseus christ died and christianity was becoming a widespread thing, the romans gathered up all the books and writings about him. They then sifted through those hundred and hundreds of books about what people allegedly knew about him. They decided what would go into the bible and in what order, they decided what was true and what was not. In all effect, the bible just reflects the beleifs of that time period. This does not make the bible true although it does have some virtues and bits of wisdom in it. So, unless you could see all of the books that were written and compare them there is really no way to tell what people truly thought or beleived. Im not saying whether or not im an aetheist because im not really sure myself, there's too many parts to it and i've never had a sign or coincidence that makes me beleieve that there could be an ultimate being that controls everything.
Im not saying whether or not im an aetheist because im not really sure myself, there's too many parts to it and i've never had a sign or coincidence that makes me beleieve that there could be an ultimate being that controls everything.
And as for god not needing to be perfect, I thought that was the whole point that is put across... yknow, god has a plan but we have free will, god is absolute and infallible but skrews up... this makes no sense to me, and to ignore that you must have gone thru some serious religious experience. I would be genuinely interested as to what caused your strenghtened belief, and I admit I am skeptical I will agree.
That's the radical belief I have. I don't think God is perfect. I think he's as close to perfect as it can get, but makes mistakes. Just because a higher power created life doesn't make him perfect, does it? I just think humans naturally assumed God was perfect; and imagine God trying to explain his faults to us. It was probably best to say nothing at all, or otherwise we may not follow an imperfect god. That was my main problem with Christianity. How could God possibly be perfect? And then it hit me: he isn't. I think people naturally rule that out because they think of God as perfect, but really, stop and think about it.
Just becasue life can thrive doesn't mean it's perfect. Perfect is also a point of view. Metaphorically, bacteria probably love it when they get a good hold on something, where as the host probably hates it and thinks the world sucks because it's dying from that bacteria. In general view however, this world is far far far from perfect. It may have the POTENTIAL to be perfect, but even with that think of the natural disasters and climate shifts. If earth was perfect, it would be a nice, cozy little habitat for every thing in the universe.
I think God is perfect, how could He "accidentally" create a perfect world?
I didn't say it was an accident. I said he wasn't perfect. If God is perfect, explain my Genesis quote on the previous page. God admits he made a mistake. Like Kasic said, this world isn't perfect anyway.
Well no ****, no one, no thing is perfect, thats why we learn from mistakes.
If you took the time to read my post, you would have realized that was the point I made on the previous page. And it's not no ****, because this is something a lot of Christians aren't willing to admit, or maybe didn't notice.
