Forums → WEPR → Flaws in the Bible

^ I was under the impression that prokaroytes ( cells with no nuclei)
evolved into eukaryotes (cells with nuclei). from there, a small fraction of them began to exchange DNA with each other. this process gave rise to sexually reproduction.. Is that how you see it bigP?

But the first living things were created by non-living things. Mmk, you made me read something, I'll let you read something too XD
This goes from the origin of the universe to the first living cells created. This of course, didn't need god's intervention (like anything needed any!).

HERE COMES THE BOMB:

Well, for most people, we as humans are like paintings, where they are created by a painter, a designer. The only difference is that the painting has chemicals which can't replicate themselves. However, the human body does, AKA DNA. Even if God DID create DNA, he doesn't need to intervene every time an animal mates with another, the DNA does the job of creating the offspring on its own. So what's the question of the...er, night? How did DNA appear is the correct choice. How did living matter get created from non-living matter?

Here, Creationists need to drop the common argument that many seem to use all the time in order to bash the opposite side of the table with the statement which was based totally off ignorance of other Creationists, which was this:

All you monkey believers think that life popped out of nowhere and out of nothingness!

Of course, that's NOT the correct way in which we think. Life popping out of nowhere is no better than popping out of the hand of a deity. So what DO top Evolutionists believe? Why don't I take this step by step for you:

1. Best way to start is looking at ancient earth 4.7 billion years ago. Many different compounds were around back then, such as hydrogen cyanide and methane gas. DNA is made from only 4 different types of Nucleotides, so where did that come from? How in the world did they come to be in this universe?

Here's this: In 1964 a brilliant researcher called Wan Oro put methane and the cyanide to boil in a solution under the perfect conditions that were in ancient earth back then. Afterwards, the solution produced adenine, one of the four types of nucleotide bases. To make a full nucleotide, it needs to gain a sugar called Ribose and a group of phosphates. How in the world did the ribose and phosphate group get formed and get attached to that nucleotide?

2. From the nucleotide to the polynucleotide

Well, once the nucleotide was formed, they needed to form together in chains called polynucleotides. In the 1980s, researchers found that a clay, called "montmorillonite", a very abundant resource in ancient earth, was a perfect catalyst for this process of "chaining".

3. Now we are going to make RNA!

Some of these copies of the polynucleotides with ribose inside, or RNA (ribonucleic acid) are able to make copies of themselves...huh. Of course the copies aren't as perfect, but again, some copies are more adapted than the other copies to survive in the hot, dense planet earth used to be. So these molecules that did survive would replicate and pass on their traits, while those that aren't so great at surviving would just break apart into regular compounds of methane and cyanide.

4. Making protocells! WHOO!

As RNA replicated, they shared their surroundings with other chemicals around them. Some chemicals, called "lipids" like to clump together to form circular bodies called micelles. RNA molecules that attracted the micelles found themselves protected inside them. Because they were protected, they better survived than those that weren't. From there, they replicated successfully, but with the entire protocell with them. There, you have the first primitive cellular structure.

5. Then from the span of hundreds of millions of years later, RNA grew more complex from replicating and passing on better traits. The single strand formed to create a double-strand molecule, and the more successful DNA molecule evolved. One thing however: DNA needs proteins to replicate. Proteins are made from amino acids or the building blocks of life, so how/where in the world did the amino acids get into the picture?

GOD GOD GOD GOD GOD GOD GOD GOD GOD GOD GOD GOD

No...there was no need for God....

6. formation of amino acids

a number of experiments with the montmorillonite not only produced amino acids, but long chains of them that are called &quotolypeptides". It turns out that this long-difficult name clay stuff is a natural breeding ground for all these complex chemicals. So there you have it. RNA, DNA, what made it, and what made amino acids, non-living chemicals that in turn made living organisms and the process in which these chemicals came to be.

So as I build this up, I ask you this: if God did create life, when did he come in, using the same kinds of steps that I have provided for you? And if the chemical process needed to create life can happen on its own, why does he need to come in?

Before I end class tonight, I want you guys to look at some old arguments that end nowhere and show complete ignorance of people's views:

"It can't be done! simple chemicals can't form into complex chemicals without intervention!"

Are you sure? Just because a lot of people pass around this argument doesn't mean it's true. It's not true. Given time and left alone, smaller, simpler chemicals can and will polymerize into complex chemicals.

"2nd law of thermodynamics, genius. FAIL"

This sad argument? Simple chemicals polymerizing into complex chemicals conflicts with NO laws of thermodynamics. I suggest if you use this argument to freely read up on this law, because I believe you haven't and are just ignorantly repeating a myth that's already been shot down many times.

You people know that creation stories aren't real, they are metaphors, this thread is pointless. The creation stories and the bible were written by humans so there are errors, but it was inspired by God and God helped the people writing it write it. The dates and times in the bible may be wrong(this is were the errors occur) but the moral and spiritual part of it is correct and that is what the bible is for. The bible is for helping us get to heaven, not trying to figuring out if light or the sun came first.

@Freakenstien:

Does God follow the laws of physics and the natural world if he created them?

So as I build this up, I ask you this: if God did create life, when did he come in, using the same kinds of steps that I have provided for you? And if the chemical process needed to create life can happen on its own, why does he need to come in?

I get exactly what you're saying. The first chicken didn't come from an egg, but the other chickens did, it's true.. You're saying that the natural order of things that we all know as true was plopped right in the middle of the world's timeline, even though there was a beginning, but it never really existed.

Then there's the way of Evolution. Not bashing yours or anything, but this is instead how I believe everything has happened.

I'm going to go make about... 10 hypothesauruses... with them put together, they frolic and mate at the normal sequence just as all of them do... 10 turns to 20, to 40, to 80, and then finally 100. All of a sudden, something prevents them all from seeing each other. this instance is the form of an earthquake. So 50 hypothesauruses are separated from the other 50. Over time, these 50 would become highly different organisms, just about enough so that they wouldn't even be able to mate and have fertile offspring because they would be so different.

These 50 were living in different environments that required different capabilities, so the environment demanded something that the first 50 didn't even need. The food from 50A was in the ground, so they had to dig with their feet to eat them. The food from 50B had come from trees, so they had to stretch their necks in order to actually reach. Those that didn't have long enough necks died, but those that did survived, and therefore reproduced. Over time, the whole tribe had longer necks and they all prospered.

So the very first Giraffasaurus creature's parents weren't Giraffasaurus's, even though the natural process says that they should come from each other. In this instance, it couldn't happen. Over time, the Giraffasaurus was created. That there's my two cents, yessir.

All right, then. We both have different theories, but agree to disagree. And congrats: I think you're the first person to understand mine. Anyway, nice discussing stuff with you.

Big, that is a beautiful theory, very well thought out. I'm one of those guys who believes God made everything, put everything on its tracks and let life evolve, only popping in when he needed to.

Now if I could just figure out how to explain my time travel theory...*sigh*

Lol you need star trek for that.

Now if I could just figure out how to explain my time travel theory...*sigh*

Lol you need star trek for that.

I'm one of those guys who believes God made everything, put everything on its tracks and let life evolve, only popping in when he needed to.

So as I build this up, I ask you this: if God did create life, when did he come in, using the same kinds of steps that I have provided for you? And if the chemical process needed to create life can happen on its own, why does he need to come in?

Let's think this through. The Bible (esp the New Testament) is a collection of writings that were put together. It wasn't written as most books were (look at the letters). So the better question to ask is why did certain parts get put in, and others left out?

Just to save time, I'll try another explanation. A timeline has points A, B, and C. A represents the beginning, B represents the beginning according to the bible, and C represents the present.

God created the timeline at point B. Point A is the step that he skipped, but the theoretical step that could form this world as it is. People at point C see evidence of point A having occurred.

Now, if point B is the beginning, then the laws of our world don't take effect until the world begins. However, the laws leave evidence of non-existent point A because without a diety, point A is necessary to spark the world as it is. Once again, this is my theory, not necessarily fact.

So basically God is a deceptive a**hole?
Okay, okay. I'll come clean. I'm God. Really, and this is actually the very first post in this forum. All the other post before it? I made them to look older. Your memories of making those posts? I implanted those memories. For that matter up til this point, everything you think you know or have experience until this point was all fabricated by me. I set everything in motion just as it is to make it look like there was a past.

The exact same thing happend with the making of the bible. There were hundred of different books that the romans sifted through and compile until it fit their beliefs and religious ideals.

Ha ha.
How is that deceptive? It's just saving time; rather than starting the world by evolving it, he skipped step A and started it at step B. How does that make him an a**hole.

And I said nothing about implanting memories. I just said that he started off the world at a certain point, which was the beginning for everything.