Forums → WEPR → [redirected]If God created all things

i watched this video, and i am now officially gonna have nightmares about the creepy man lady, and her manly horrendous lipstick and creepy slick backed greaser hairstyle. So that is basically enough for me to kinda disregard his/her... screw it..

Your disregarding what's being discussed based on the way a person looks? I'm not sure it's even worth replying to the rest of your post.

haha, well you probably didnt read the rest of my post then... Because i took everything else serious, once i turned my computer down. But nice try i guess, to just disregard everything i said... what is it the other guy said... disregardation is compliance... o well

haha, well you probably didnt read the rest of my post then... Because i took everything else serious, once i turned my computer down. But nice try i guess, to just disregard everything i said... what is it the other guy said... disregardation is compliance... o well

Not really. Considering what I was saying is pretty much the same as what they are saying since I am even using this video as a basis and your disregarding that for an ad hominem does nothing but kills your argument out right.

Now ur sounding like a christian on the ropes trying to disprove what an athiest says. Basically because i took everything he said, and then proposed a counter arguement... All my theries go to waste, because i think he looks like a scary maralyn manson. Sry bud, but he's an athiest, and im trying to disprove his facts with mine. And the fact is, it doesn't matter what i say about him, what i said is a clear counter arguement, and taking 1% of my wording and trying to disregard what im saying with it, well lets just say thats very insignificant, and you can say what you want about it, but it doesn't help your case wat so ever. Basically you have an arguement formented from a kid sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling i cant hear you. But its cool

sry for the dbl post... But also, if your gonna start saying may points should be thrown out because of my opinion on the way someone looks, than your whole arguement on gods morals (i mean the youtube vid) should basically be thrown out also. It has crazy biasy in it, and it makes more sense to throw out biasy than an opinion on looks.. Sorry, but your reasononing towards shunning what i had to say doesn't hold water

Now ur sounding like a christian on the ropes trying to disprove what an athiest says. Basically because i took everything he said, and then proposed a counter arguement... All my theries go to waste, because i think he looks like a scary maralyn manson.

then they should be punished. Should we not remember that we also killed people for crimes they commited? We dont look back on the government, and the law enforcement, and say wow they are bad people!!! No we see the murderers, and say they deserved it.

K first off we got of each animal, so life basically restarted.

And on another note, no ones knows how many people were on the planet at that time. For all we know there could've been like 100 people

He wanted man to go there own way, follow what they thought was right. Once they stepped over the breaking point into the lets call it... the heart of darkness??? He knew they went to far, and there was no going back.

Seeing the only good on earth he decided to try and save that part, and destroy all the evil. What do you do with zombies??? you kill em. Or is that going to be another moral judgement also?

For instance he pleaded with the pharoah to harden his heart with the burden of the death of children, and still the pharoah said no... Therefore God caused the death of all first born children..

Like i think we've been over this a million times. The bible was written to help cope with things back in the day... If they were to say slavery was wrong, christians would be killed.

You first say its wrong to kill the people causing slavery, and now ur saying its wrong to have slavery. so umm yea, just kinda showing a point here.. I mean God killed the people causing slavery, and you just pointed it out how it was such a bad thing, and now ur saying that god doesnt mind slavery.. hmmmm weird.

And yea its the sin of adam and eve, because they chose to go against gods word. It is such a horrible sin, that it is to be passed down to every generation. That would mean us all. Yea its a bit weird, but I mean God is a judge, and thus gives out the punishment. I mean getting baptized isnt that bad...

The fact that someone was willing to die for humanities sins, was enough for God to realize that there truely was good in humanity. Especially the way he died, gave God the epiphany. Not to mention that Jesus was the son of God, allowing him to take part in decision made within the spectrum of heaven and judgement of man.

And of course hell. How could a God do this? Well theres a place for evil buddy, and it definately doesn't belong up where God is.

And i should also say, if you were all powerful, and someone didn't believe in you and tried with every might to prove you wrong, would you really want them to live in your house? Would you want to become pals with them? Anyways its either eternal ****ation, or eternal bliss, depending on if you follow good morals or not.

So heres the thing. So lets put it in terms of life. Either your gonna go to jail for being bad, or your going to live outside of jail... Its simple as that. Does someone mighty and powerful wanna sit next to someone whos killed a bunch of people. Probably not.

And next time, dont pick sum biased pr'ck that looks like a wanna be maralyn manson on youtube to give your source

Again this ad hominem BS is exactly why I didn't want to reply to you in the first place. Now SHOVE IT!

Its not BS at all. Every single athiest ive known gets starts there defence with "the website is clearly biased".. Therefore its an ad hominem... Just trying to show you how it feels. And if this kid wasn't so judgemental, biased, know all and be all of everything possible, then i wouldnt talk crap about him? (still not sure, and im actually being serious now cuz i dont want to hurt feelings any further =/)... And also im not gonna shove it, cuz im tired of this relentless attacks trying to disprove christianity, and shake peoples believes. Its semi immature, and extremely annoying. So here you go, this is how it always feels, exactly what you just decided to say to me... =O.

You seemed to have missed the point. It's not just denying them a good after life it's out right torturing them for eternity as punishment for a limited issue.
It would be like a kid breaking curfew and being grounded and beat for the rest of his life for it. The punishment is disproportionate to the crime.

False. Its like a kid constantly breaking curfew, constantly stealing, and constantly getting into trouble and never ever repenting, asking for forgiveness, or apologizing for the crimes he's commiting. That is what it would be like... Its not one little thing causing you to go to hell, which is where the biased BS came into play.

sure wouldn't send them to a place to be tortured for eternity.

well i guess it sucks for you if he exists huh =/

This still seems like a needless gesture to show a being who is supposed to be all that and some int he love department and is still saying that punishing an innocent for anothers guilt is okay.

Jesus died for it in the harshest way possible, without even trying to get away. He sacrificed himself to save everyone. Like someone jumping onto a grenade to save others around them in a war. He wasn't punished either, considering he's Gods right hand... If he was punished i think he'd be in hell.

So you are saying that while weird it is acceptable to be condemned for something someone else did and we have to say sorry even though we didn't do it.

Were part of the same family... Considering everyone is decendants of Adam and Eve... Yes. I think its understandable to be that angry.. That your own creation disobeys you the only way possible like a couple days after you create them. But again, pinpricking through the religion is very lovely.

Early Christianity were already being killed for there beliefs.

Same with every new religion, but if the slave thing was in there, it would be thrown out... Cuz that would've been unrealistic. It would be like saying that in the modern day electricity was a sin. yea it wouldnt go over well.

Your saying he had to tell people it was okay. So clearly he didn't kill thew slavers off. The Bible in both old and new testaments clearly condones slavery that's what's there.

He didn't kill the slavers, but he made life as harsh as possible and gave them treatment back. Im just saying the guy hypocrited himself within 2 points right after each other. thats all.

Something your God would have known would happen and just let happen raising the question why he would let things go that far in the first place.

Well considering free will, i mean its kinda hypocritical to go back on your word, and start puppeteering everybody around right? What should he have done? Locked em all in cages untill they behaved? i think thats torture thow.. Or should he have yelled at them from the sky? That would definately show them a very good hard taught lesson.

Kill or be killed is defiantly a different case all together.

Well i meant to say was basically killing evil. But i thought to myself zombies sounded awesome.. Nvm they dont. Anyways its killing evil, and keeping the last remaining good on earth alive.

The numbers here don't really matter his answer to the problem was mass genocide.

Or the destruction of evil... People take this crap to seriously.. It stories based on destroying evil, and keeping the good alive. Thats what its about... But again athiests feel the need to give that little extra push now and again =)

There are actually many who disagree with the death penalty. It is a clearly imperfect solution to a problem and a supreme being should be able to come up with better.

Putting them all in a cage for 50 yrs would be a pretty good idea i guess. But thats alot of people. I think i would've rathered just die to be honest.

You started your argument with "I'm disregarding this because of the way the person looked" That right there hurts what ever you had to say after that. But since you don't seem to want to drop I will oblige you on this one, even though I don't think your worth it at this point.

I made a mistake. I meant to say im disturbed. not disregarding. Critical mistake, and i understand sorta where ur coming from. The fact you dont think im worth it, is because im making fun of the only evidence you givin out on these threads. You finally got to understand what every christian faces, and now you know how it feels... To just have what you put out there disregarded because of first impressions.

I made a mistake. I meant to say im disturbed. not disregarding. Critical mistake, and i understand sorta where ur coming from.

This refers to how Jesus died for your sins. By accepting this your accepting the punishment of an innocent for anothers guilt.

This is in reference to hell. an infinite punishment for a finite transgression is clearly a disproportionate punishment. This is made even worse when you consider you have to have an innocent punished in your place or receive this disproportionate punishment.

again your just making excuses and trying to shift the blame. You can't claim this to be the word of God then turn around and claim the parts you don't agree with are because of human error. I will agree that it has been messed with in a number of ways but this only puts the validity of the entire thing into questions not just parts.

i watched this video, and i am now officially gonna have nightmares about the creepy man lady, and her manly horrendous lipstick and creepy slick backed greaser hairstyle. So that is basically enough for me to kinda disregard his/her... screw it..

but I'll get back to it later if someone doesn't beat me to it first

Every single athiest ive known gets starts there defence with "the website is clearly biased"..

And if this kid wasn't so judgemental, biased, know all and be all of everything possible, then i wouldnt talk crap about him?

cuz im tired of this relentless attacks trying to disprove christianity, and shake peoples believes

Its semi immature, and extremely annoying

False. Its like a kid constantly breaking curfew, constantly stealing, and constantly getting into trouble and never ever repenting, asking for forgiveness, or apologizing for the crimes he's commiting

well i guess it sucks for you if he exists huh =/

Like someone jumping onto a grenade to save others around them in a war

Were part of the same family

Considering everyone is decendants of Adam and Eve

I think its understandable to be that angry

It would be like saying that in the modern day electricity was a sin

He didn't kill the slavers, but he made life as harsh as possible and gave them treatment back. Im just saying the guy hypocrited himself within 2 points right after each other. thats all.

Well considering free will, i mean its kinda hypocritical to go back on your word, and start puppeteering everybody around right? What should he have done? Locked em all in cages untill they behaved? i think thats torture thow.. Or should he have yelled at them from the sky? That would definately show them a very good hard taught lesson.

Well i meant to say was basically killing evil. But i thought to myself zombies sounded awesome.. Nvm they dont. Anyways its killing evil, and keeping the last remaining good on earth alive.

Or the destruction of evil... People take this crap to seriously.. It stories based on destroying evil, and keeping the good alive

But again athiests feel the need to give that little extra push now and again =)

Putting them all in a cage for 50 yrs would be a pretty good idea i guess. But thats alot of people. I think i would've rathered just die to be honest.

I made a mistake. I meant to say im disturbed. not disregarding. Critical mistake, and i understand sorta where ur coming from

The fact you dont think im worth it, is because im making fun of the only evidence you givin out on these threads

You finally got to understand what every christian faces, and now you know how it feels..

To just have what you put out there disregarded because of first impressions.

He also chose to so christians could be in heaven for all eternity.

Everyone has the chance to ask forgiveness, thus you have a chance to not go to hell.

So God's purpose for using hell as punishment

Great walls 'O text! Mage, I think you deserve a break.

I'm not surprised nor should you be that no one has yet to put the Bible to the test as "Zinnia Jones" did in the video.

#1 Global Genocide (w/biblical flood of Genesis & Noah). Let's go back to my previous post which wasn't far from the point of origin of this decay of humanity.
I'll start by answering 'Zinnia's' question: "One of the most confusing aspects of this story is how literally everyone on earth could be so evil; they were all deserving of death?"

I could sum it up to one word, obedience.

God created man and woman to think for themselves, not little babies to be raised, nursed, etc. God created full grown adults.
God walked with them in Eden and were told of the two trees in the center of the garden were off limits and why.
Satan was there, tempted Eve, who in turn offered the fruit, (not an apple because apples don't come from that region), to Adam.

Hence the fall of man,(fall from God's grace). Curses were placed on Adam, Eve and satan.
Later, they had two sons, the first Cain and the second Abel. Abel was obedient to God by bringing the first born fatted lamb. Cain disobeyed by offering some of the fruits of the soil to God, but the text does not say it was Cain's best.

Cain commits murder and is banned from the land where Abel shed his blood at the hand of Cain.
Cain goes to Nod, east of Eden. (Nod means wandering)
There, at Nod, Cain takes a wife.

skip to Genesis 4:25, Eve gives birth to Seth.
Jesus' ancestry is traced back to Adam and Eve through Seth's descendants, not Cain's.

On to Noah, Genesis, chapter 10. I don't have my Bible in front of me so I'll go by memory:
There were three types of men mentioned in this chapter. Giants, I can't remember the name, men of Man and men of God.

Scholars still like to argue where the giants come from but this could have been the 'mark' placed on Cain when he was banished.
Regardless, these men and men of man were marrying the daughters of the men of God. Things were very bad.

Let's pause a minute and reflect on previous events. God created people with different personalities, free-thinkers, and Adam was intelligent enough to name every bird, creature that swam, walked, slithered, etc. and named the plants, and Eve, all of their children.
These children aren't named in the Bible. Some of Cain's children are named in the Bible though.
Anyway, God could have simply pulled out His eraser and made everything disappear.
He didn't and He's already proved His love for His creation and especially people since He placed us above the angels, above the rest of His earthly creations.

God demands obedience, he doesn't ask us for it! Hence commandments, not requests. God isn't a man, He doesn't answer to man. Who are we to question the acts of God? Furthermore He didn't wipe all of humanity off the face of the earth!

#2 "The Premeditated Murder of Children" 'Zinnia' uses the Exodus story that describes the total annihilation of first-born males.

Pharaoh had been warned and plagued until God had to prove that His people would be set free. The window of questioning the power of God was over and along with it the window of opportunity for Pharaoh to renounce his false gods and worship the God of Israel.

The Jews were spared this curse of death by painting blood above the doors of all of their homes. Today this is still called 'the Passover' because the angel of death passed over the Children of God.

#3 The Failure to Condemn Slavery.

One word: obedience.

Men created the institute of slavery, not God. Roman guards were converted because of Paul's incarceration.
The Bible isn't written to entertain us, it's a blueprint of how God expects His people to control our natural desire to sin.

#4 The Imposition of Hereditary Guilt
Jesus' replaces this guilt. He doesn't desire that anyone should feel guilt of any type. The choice is ours. Some people choose to spend 40 years wandering around the same mountain. It's totally unnecessary today.

#5 The Acceptance of Vicarious Punishment
Being punished for sins my great-grandfather did is no longer needed when Jesus shed His blood for the sin of every human, once and for all.

#6 The Sanctioning of Infinite Punishment

I stand firm in my belief that "one day, every knee shall bow and every mouth shall confess that Jesus is Lord of Lord's and King of King's!
You don't have to believe it but I know it will happen regardless because the Bible doesn't lie. I may learn a little something new every time I read it and I may scratch my head and jot down a page full of questions.
God is always faithful to answer every question I've put before Him.

Mage's 'kid' (figuratevely speaking, and assuming you were replying to Mage), has the life of eternity, symbolized by the eternity that Christians believe that unorthodox individuals spend in hell. The unorthodoxy is represented by the 'small misbehavior', which is the individual's unorthodox behavior during their time on Earth. Your 'kid', as dictated by your description, would essentially be unorthodoxy throughout their 'eriod in hell', which....doesn't exactly make sense, as God's judgment for unorthodoxy occurs during the individuals life span in Earth.

Every single athiest ive known gets starts there defence with "the website is clearly biased".. Therefore its an ad hominem...

Same with every new religion, but if the slave thing was in there, it would be thrown out... Cuz that would've been unrealistic. It would be like saying that in the modern day electricity was a sin.

Or the destruction of evil... People take this crap to seriously.. It stories based on destroying evil, and keeping the good alive.

Well considering free will, i mean its kinda hypocritical to go back on your word, and start puppeteering everybody around right?

To just have what you put out there disregarded because of first impressions.

Mage, how am I shifting the blame? I said that the majority of the bible has the chance to be opinions, not only the parts I disagree with.

God cannot be around sin and sin cannot be around God. In fact it says in the bible that hell well be a relief compared to the shame and agony you will feel in God's presence with sin.

God demands obedience, he doesn't ask us for it!

Who are we to question the acts of God?

Furthermore He didn't wipe all of humanity off the face of the earth!

Pharaoh had been warned and plagued until God had to prove that His people would be set free. The window of questioning the power of God was over and along with it the window of opportunity for Pharaoh to renounce his false gods and worship the God of Israel.

The Jews were spared this curse of death by painting blood above the doors of all of their homes. Today this is still called 'the Passover' because the angel of death passed over the Children of God.

Men created the institute of slavery, not God. Roman guards were converted because of Paul's incarceration.
The Bible isn't written to entertain us, it's a blueprint of how God expects His people to control our natural desire to sin.

the Bible doesn't lie.

Jesus' replaces this guilt. He doesn't desire that anyone should feel guilt of any type. The choice is ours. Some people choose to spend 40 years wandering around the same mountain. It's totally unnecessary today.

Being punished for sins my great-grandfather did is no longer needed when Jesus shed His blood for the sin of every human, once and for all.

God is always faithful to answer every question I've put before Him.

Key point: "ive known". This indicates that your implication derives from beliefs, which is not neccessarily true. Not all Atheists begin their arguments with...whatever you said.[/i]

negatory... not key point.. your key point enabling to take what i said out of my sentence into your own words, to make it on yourside.

PLZ, clean up your grammer. It sounds terrible. First off, that's insulting, and secondly, I don't know who your talking about, nor can I determine what you're trying to say.

your coming in halfway through a debate about mages video.. Expecting to understand everything. the fact is most stuff your arguementing on isn't even loosely based on the points im making, ill say that right now.. It was more of something between me and mage I guess.. And mostly it was because of the cockiness of the kid in the video.. That is the only reason i decided to dispute that vid...

Mage's 'kid' (figuratevely speaking, and assuming you were replying to Mage), has the life of eternity, symbolized by the eternity that Christians believe that unorthodox individuals spend in hell. The unorthodoxy is represented by the 'small misbehavior', which is the individual's unorthodox behavior during their time on Earth. Your 'kid', as dictated by your description, would essentially be unorthodoxy throughout their 'eriod in hell', which....doesn't exactly make sense, as God's judgment for unorthodoxy occurs during the individuals life span in Earth.
The point is, your representation doesn't make sense, and doesn't relate to Mage's initial argument.

Again coming in halfway through, doesn't help. But you basically got it all wrong. Were metaphorically speaking here, not about mages kid at all.... And yes it fully relates to his arguement.. Half your comments in this post alone basically don't relate to anything in this arguement.

Sort of irrelevent, and doesn't act as a proper counterargument. Mage's point still stands (It's Mage your talking to right??), that an all intelligent, all caring God wouldn't subject a questioning and reasonable individual to eternity in punishment, just for incompliance.

k seriously dude... Im only gonna go through your arguements tonight, and then mages tomorow. But basically half of these have confused me to hell. You got everything backwards in this one to. Id do a facepalm but i understand coming into an arguement half the time, doesn't make much sense.. which is why this should kinda stop getting people to come into these things. Its annoying having 3 athiests backing each other up, when only one truely knows what the arguements about..

The point I'm making is that having some dude die on a cross cannot possibly affect the morality of the entirety of society. It's impossible, and extremely imprudent of any son of an omniscient God to do something irrational like that.

Thanks for proving the point sir. Because it was irrational for a son of a God to do it, God realized that there was good in the world and Jesus saw it. Which is why jesus saved us from our sins. =/ but of course not every high and mighty person out there would risk there life to save millions i guess.. Thats just irrational

That...on the other hand, is highly debatable, and quite possible misleading.

just like a bunch of the anti christianic crap i have to listen to every time a read these threads? awe that sucks eh

I thought Dog was supposed to be omnipotent AND omniscient?

Well my dog thinks she is, but im thinking she'll learn her lesson eventually.

I really don't understand your connection, here. Again, without sufficient counter-debate-ness, Mage's point stands: That an omnipotent Dog would find a way to prevent the intentional destruction of its own people.

dude can u stop saying his point still stands? like really congrats, im pretty sure every point out there stands, concidering points dont bend. Like i feel like im starting to hear an echo in this thread, 4 or 5 times over now. First you put 2 different things together, and then mingled them up... Dogs dont kill there own kind either. It was about Slavery being something god endorsed, which is still being up for debate, because you mingled 2 different things together and formed a nice lil stew in the middle of a post.

I'm lost. I really cannot understand your logic. PLEASE elucidate.

dude you just really shouldn't of posted.. unless you fully understood these arguements. im done arguing over this when you dont have the concepts. the he is the guy in teh video btw

Chales Darwin was actually disturbed at the numerous quantity of evidence he found during his voyage on the SS Beagle that contradicted that of Christian views. The same man that pretty much uprooted the Christian community was once an advocate.
Just take a single step into the world of questioning, and you'll begin to understand the purpose of atheism.
hmm sounds almost like a jehovah witness preaching. as for purpose? there is none other than shutting of the spiritual side of your soul, body, and brain. good purpose

only evidence...I almost scoffed at that one.

i guess saying show me proof is evidence now.

Most Christians face the fear of punishment in hell. Again, Charles Darwin faced that same fear, but through enlightenment on the SS Beagle, he began to turn to the truth.

no most christians fear god. wrong statement. and unless he turned to the wwall of truth (which only bruce wayne has) i say false advertising.

Hmmm...That was deep....(sortofkindofnotreally) >_<
Please don't assume that Atheists argue based on prejudice, because that would make yourself as prejudiced as you assume others to be.

Then y do u argue. your trying to falsify a religion based on your beliefs... in science. its cute, and its kinda a d'ck move. so yea sorry bud but thats how people take it.