A bill passed by the Utah House and Senate this week and waiting for the governor's signature, will make it a crime for a woman to have a miscarriage, and make induced abortion a crime in some instances.
Am I the only one that see the flaw in this, as in "many pregnancies end up in unintended miscarriage" and "Wow, thanks for putting the lady in prison for being hit by a car!"? As someone else said:
Yeah, cause it's not like miscarriage is traumatic enough for a woman! Let's ARREST her to add to the trauma!
Wow I feel bad for Utahians miscarriages are accidents or nature intended incidents. I think the Utah senates were drunk and meant to make abortions against the law.
I really don't see what's wrong with this. If you read the Salt Lake City Tribune that the article you linked to links to, it clearly states that "a woman's 'intentional, knowing, or reckless act' leading to a pregnancy's illegal termination" would be made illegal
It allows people to make the argument,''she knew this would lead to a miscarriage.'' It is nothing more than a method to control women. Walked outside? Guilty. Worked? Guilty. With such a law, you could more or less justify locking women inside and not let her do anything whilst pregnant. Are we just to hope that everyone in the state has good intentions and doesn't use it that way?
That just makes it confusing though, because theoretically you could charge her with attempted murder, however abortion is essentially just the same thing done in a more civilized way. Therefore if you want to make that illegal, I guess you'd have to make abortion illegal to...
Let me just say, right off the bat, that I am a Utahn, and in no way, shape or form, does the government speak for all of the residents of the state. This is, without a doubt, the dumbest law in the history of mankind. Just because the majority of the government is Mormon, they should not foist their beliefs against abortion and miscarriage upon the entire state. For one thing, IT'S NOT THE WOMAN'S **** FAULT! What, are we back in the medieval stage again? Are we going to accuse a woman of heresy and ruin her just because she miscarries? Is religion truly going to influence our governmental policies which affect the entire population of the state, which, newsflash, IS NOT ENTIRELY COMPRISED OF MORMONS. Not all miscarriages are accidental, and new newsflash: ABORTIONS ARE STILL ****ING LEGAL! God, I am just so pissed off at my own state right now.
Anyway, we oughta go beat up Utah
As I said, the government does not speak for the populace.
I really don't see why we don't just kick Utah out. Do we really need them?
Now, that's just insulting. Just because the government made a bad law, does that mean the entire state is like that? No!
Screw Utah, i always knew it was a cr** state
*scowl*. All states have problems.
Now that my rant/debate is over, let me just say this: I really wish Huntsman were still our governor. He was one of the best governors Utah's ever had; he was very efficient. At the very least he was SANE, and kept the state legislature SANE! I really hate this new Herbert dude, and I swear, if he signs this bill, and I am going to punch a hole in my ****ing wall.
Sure, if a woman is caught trying to abort a baby illegally, she should be punished.
And your assuming that the government, is like a bunch of Salem witch trial judges who will suspect every women with a miscarriage of wrong doing, or am I misinterpreting you? I think this will mainly apply to people who are caught in the act. I don't think they will hunt people down to find out whether or not they commit miscarriages, and people who have miscarriages in a hospital would be suspect regardless.
It allows people to make the argument,''she knew this would lead to a miscarriage.'' It is nothing more than a method to control women. Walked outside? Guilty. Worked? Guilty. With such a law, you could more or less justify locking women inside and not let her do anything whilst pregnant. Are we just to hope that everyone in the state has good intentions and doesn't use it that way?
Well to me thats kind of a stretch. I think in court they would probably have to prove such actions led to the miscarriage because some parts of the Constitution are actually listened to still, but of course I could always be wrong since I'm just assuming all of this...
Don't feel too bad. The governor of my state was arrested. Nobody even knew how to pronounce his last name.
Wow and I thought our new governor was bad...well at least next election I will be able to vote...
Oh man, this is even worse than Australia's lengthening run of politicians that are progressively making Australia the laughing stock of the world... Joyce (has no clue about that which he talks) and Conroy (corrupt and megalomaniacal) to name two.
But this law, this law is just funny. Because it has no applicability. I simply cannot take it seriously.
Did you know that 1 in 4 pregnancies end in "miscarriage"? And I'm not talking about induced terminations of pregmnancy here, I'm talking spontaneous, unadultered process. The best part is that the vast majority of these miscarriages happen before pregnancy is even detected/detectable (only reliable sign of pregnancy is beta-HCG levels, and they only rise when the next period is due. But before then, an embryo would already be anywhere between 3-5 weeks old!) OMG ALL THESE CRIMINALS WE CAN'T CATCH! WE'LL HAVE TO MANDATE ABSTINENCE!!!
So there you have it- due to the legislators knowing nothing, they've drafted a law which has no bearing on practical reality.
This is beyond the realm of anti-abortion laws. This is just plain stupid. If only public global censure were a legitimate cause of social campaigning to a government that probably doesn't know its own a** from a ficus tree.
only public global censure were a legitimate cause of social campaigning to a government that probably doesn't know its own a** from a ficus tree.
ahahahaa....I get the joke out of this one. Xp
The governor of my state was arrested. Nobody even knew how to pronounce his last name.
And the governor of mine is the prime example of the stereotype of a midget that talks big to those he shouldn't mess with. Take that, put his political spectrum to the right 12 notches, and there's ol' Mitch Daniels.
One of our state laws is about putting a limit on a particular chemical, just because it's one of the key ingredients in meth. It's also the key ingredient in OTC medications. The limits amounts up to only 2 boxes of an example OTC medication, and if you are proven to have exceeded the limit, you are going to jail.
Frankly, I'm tired of the opinionated links that have been tossed around as proof that Utah will make all miscarriage illegal. Let us have some better links. The first link I have is one from the New York Times, a news source that has some standard of editing. The second is a link to the actual bill itself.
The problem I see with the bill from reading the actual text is not the fact that miscarriage would be illegal, the problem would be proving that a miscarriage was intentionally attempted and therefore able to be labeled as "aggravated murder." The key word is intentional, whereas an "unadulterated, spontaneous" abortion would not fall under effect in this bill.
Whatever the case, the girl who started the case that gave rise to the bill cannot be tried because ex post facto laws are prohibited under the Constitution.
The problem I see with the bill from reading the actual text is not the fact that miscarriage would be illegal, the problem would be proving that a miscarriage was intentionally attempted and therefore able to be labeled as "aggravated murder." The key word is intentional, whereas an "unadulterated, spontaneous" abortion would not fall under effect in this bill.
If the spirit of the law can't be put into words without causing more harm than it prevents, maybye you need to look long and hard at it before making any significant statements as to what should or shouldn't be.
That being said, I'm more inclined to think that is your opinion of the law, not the spirit of the law. The spirit is blind support for life without consideration of the consequences.
Well to me thats kind of a stretch. I think in court they would probably have to prove such actions led to the miscarriage because some parts of the Constitution are actually listened to still, but of course I could always be wrong since I'm just assuming all of this...
A stretch? Considering Utah's history regarding choice vs life and the fact they are even considering the creation of such an idiotic and counter productive law I'd say it's a real danger.
WOW a lot of you aren't getting what the law will be if passed, the car indecent, she will not go to jail, the law says that it will be illegal to have a miscarriage on purpose, for example it would be illegal for a woman to hire a man to beat her stomach hopping to kill the baby, instead of having an abortion. that will be illegal, not any miscarriage, whoever posted this obviously doesn't know the law itself.
whoever posted this obviously doesn't know the law itself.
Then maybe you should read the OP than assuming what the thread was about judging only from the title.
Every single time a woman has a miscarriage, they will brand her as a suspect, then perform investigations to make sure she didn't intentionally cause the miscarriage to happen.
Do you know how depressing it can be for women to have accidental iscarriages? The last thing they need is to have someone point a finder at them and say, "M'am, did you have this miscarriage on purpose? You say you didn't? We would love to believe that, but we need to double check to make sure you aren't lieing. We need to make sure we can trust you when you say you didn't mean to kill your child."
Do you have any idea how terrible it will be for women to hear that? I don't think enough women are trying to cause miscarriages for it to be a law.
WOW a lot of you aren't getting what the law will be if passed, the car indecent, she will not go to jail, the law says that it will be illegal to have a miscarriage on purpose, for example it would be illegal for a woman to hire a man to beat her stomach hopping to kill the baby, instead of having an abortion.
I suggest to certain parties in this discussion do a little research into why so many women feel the overwhelming need to force a miscarriage, that they are so far at the end of their rope that the risk serious injury doesn't enter into the equation.
Preferably do that before you are so willing to promote a law criminalising it.
I also do not see any evidence to suggest that making such a practice illegal would encourage women to have a legal abortion. If abortion is relatively cheap and safe, why are women still hiring guys with baseball bats? That should be the first question you need to ask. If you can't find an answer, you can't solve the problem.
Abortion, I'm divided, Victims of crimes that could lead to a child not of their mates should maybe be allowed, but abortion as a birth control? That's almost like manslaughter. In cases it is very wrong, but in others it can save the mother's life.
