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DarkestNite
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DarkestNite
166 posts
Nomad

any muslims out there??

  • 173 Replies
Avorne
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Avorne
3,085 posts
Nomad

Hah, it's the truth! You think people are born religious? You take a newborn - never let it near religion and I guarantee you it will have no concept of 'God'.

DarkestNite
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DarkestNite
166 posts
Nomad

haha right... like the people who first made up non prophet based religions, such as the aztecs??

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

haha right... like the people who first made up non prophet based religions, such as the aztecs??


They weren't born with it, they made it up to explain things. Such as the weather, the cycle of day and night, what happens when you die ect. Much like every other religion, or even a fiction book. Are you saying Tolkien was born with the Lord of the Ring series engraved in his/her brain?
DarkestNite
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DarkestNite
166 posts
Nomad

i was responding to avorne:

Hah, it's the truth! You think people are born religious? You take a newborn - never let it near religion and I guarantee you it will have no concept of 'God'.
Avorne
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Avorne
3,085 posts
Nomad

While I'm here I'd like to point out that the Abrahamic religions are far from the first ones to be made up for the purpose of explaining things. Look at the ancient Egyptian religions and Gods.

DarkestNite
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DarkestNite
166 posts
Nomad

Exactly my point!! Just because someone is not raised in a religion does not mean they won't search for one.

Avorne
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Avorne
3,085 posts
Nomad

No, they search for answers - we're unlucky enough to belong to a naturally superstitious race. If they find religion then they stop looking for other answers - and that Isn't right.

wajor59
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wajor59
909 posts
Nomad

everyone Is born an Atheist and some choose to become religious later.


That statement is as ignorant as saying every baby is born straight and later on learns to be homose*ual.
God is Spirit, not human. We are called by the Spirit of God to worsip, praise and learn His teachings.
A person can go to mosque, synagogue or church every day the doors are open but that does not and will never make her/him devout or devoted to God.
The true test for others, and 314d1 this can also answer your false statement aimed at me as an "inferior" being, to know if the person they meet is Spirit filled is the truth of the persons beliefs. If they deny the existence of the Spirit of God, they are not Spirit filled and if Christian, Protestant, etc. are not born again. The second birth is only a spiritual birth but the change for that person is profound, not emotional, mental or moral.
Futhermore, I don't need a man, priest or pastor to read the Bible to me nor do I require someone else to interpret what it says. I go to the Father directly because that is what the blood of Jesus Christ replaced. He is the High Priest and replaces the human priest that in ancient days I would have to go to with my peace offerings, grain offerings, sin offerings, etc.
I didn't have to talk myself into acting a certain way nor did I have to make myself stop bad or harmful habits but these and many more changes did occur very quickly for me and to me. I would think these changes in my life would constitute miracles especially considering how angry, cynical and condescending I used to be.

My spirit agrees with God even though I still sin. Speaking of sin, babies are born into sin but do they begin sinning immediately after birth?
No, babies usually learn about sin later when an older sibling has pinched them, or made a face at them, etc. That's why all babies and young children go to heaven until they're old enough to know right from wrong, good from evil.

No, they search for answers - we're unlucky enough to belong to a naturally superstitious race. If they find religion then they stop looking for other answers - and that Isn't right.


Are you talking about the dark ages, again?
Science, arts, culture, education all came about after the God of Abraham, Christianity and Islam were introduced. The only people alive today that naturally believe in superstitions choose that belief system unless they live in an impovrished society completely cut off from the rest of the world.

Now, have I tried to convert anyone with this wall? I have never tried to proselytize anyone. All I have ever done was to share my faith with others. This is what I'm called to do, that's all.
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

That statement is as ignorant as saying every baby is born straight and later on learns to be homose*ual.


Actually it's not. Homosexuality is genetic. Religion is a learned behavior. Anyone who has not been exposed to religion will not have that concept. It is created as a result of a lack of information in an attempt to explain the unexplainable.

I didn't have to talk myself into acting a certain way nor did I have to make myself stop bad or harmful habits but these and many more changes did occur very quickly for me and to me. I would think these changes in my life would constitute miracles especially considering how angry, cynical and condescending I used to be.


You can attribute these things to your spirituality if you wish, and I'm not saying that isn't the explanation. However there are other, scientifically observed conditions which could have brought about these results in you regardless of your faith. Just because you think your religion made this change in you doesn't necessarily mean that is the only or the true explanation.

Science, arts, culture, education all came about after the God of Abraham, Christianity and Islam were introduced.


Actually we had all of those things thousands of years before those gods were ever invented. However many of our most profound advancements as a society have occurred since that time.

The only people alive today that naturally believe in superstitions choose that belief system unless they live in an impovrished society completely cut off from the rest of the world.


Not entirely accurate. Superstitions are actually quite commonplace, even in the modern nations. Christianity, Judeaism, and Islam are all full of superstition, and they have millions of followers each from nations around the world.
tomertheking
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tomertheking
1,751 posts
Jester

That statement is as ignorant as saying every baby is born straight and later on learns to be homose*ual.


Well it's a fact. you don't see him being homosexual right after birth.

God is Spirit, not human.


That's the whole point of the bible. We don't need you to say that.

A person can go to mosque, synagogue or church every day the doors are open


That has been so only since the 19th century. And not because of raligion. It is outlawed for you pagan to enter a mosque.

they deny the existence of the Spirit of God, they are not Spirit filled


Good for them.

Futhermore, I don't need a man, priest or pastor to read the Bible to me nor do I require someone else to interpret what it says. I go to the Father directly


You're a protestant.

My spirit agrees with God even though I still sin.


Agrees about what?

That's why all babies and young children go to heaven until they're old enough to know right from wrong, good from evil.


There isn't a moment when "boom" and you know good from evil. It is a slow prosses.

Are you talking about the dark ages, again?


He's talking generally.

Now, have I tried to convert anyone with this wall?


Frigging yes
Avorne
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Avorne
3,085 posts
Nomad

That statement is as ignorant as saying every baby is born straight and later on learns to be homose*ual.
God is Spirit, not human. We are called by the Spirit of God to worsip, praise and learn His teachings.
A person can go to mosque, synagogue or church every day the doors are open but that does not and will never make her/him devout or devoted to God.


http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/File:Tumbleweed.gif

You seriously believe that? Homosexuality isn't (for the most part) learned behaviour - unlike religion, which I can assure you, is learned behaviour.
wajor59
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wajor59
909 posts
Nomad

This site is extremely "glitchy" so this is my last post.

Tomertheking, yes, I'm protestant. Otherwise, you've taken everything I've said out of context much like 314d1 would so rudely do. When you decide to start posting with more respect I will respectfully choose to answer ligitimate questions otherwise I will ignore your rants.

To MrWalker, where's your proof that homose*uality is genetic? Where's the facts that the religions you mentioned habor superstitions? "Religion" didn't have a thing to do with my Spiritual rebirth.

Yes, Avorne I believe everything I've said but I apologize for any typos such as worship, not worsip.
Having an appearance of religion doesn't make you a devoted Christian. It certainly doesn't affect your spirit just by randomly reading your Bible and sometimes praying empty words before meal time, bed time, at church,etc. Many people who call themselves Christian don't even know, for sure, if their spirit will go to heaven when they die. That is not the answer of a spirit filled believer of God. I hope you can see the differences between the two. One only hopes they will go to heaven the other knows they will.

Do you know what I find funny with these religious attacks? Most of the points mentioned on this and other Atheist vs Religion threads that are aimed against religion are the very points Jesus hated about religion.

Good night and good morning folks, I'm out of here until AG fixes the glitches.

MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

To MrWalker, where's your proof that homose*uality is genetic?


There have been numerous studies on the causes of homosexuality and many have hinted that much of the cause lies in genetics and hormones, even to the point that there are observable and measurable physiological differences between homosexuals and heterosexuals of the same sex.

The wiki article explains much of this information, but to see the details of many of these findings you will need to go to the source material cited and read the scientific findings in their original reports.

While no one knows conclusively what the cause is, emerging scientific evidence suggests that it is much more biological than we have ever realized, and more and more information supporting these theories is being put forth even as we speak.

Where's the facts that the religions you mentioned habor superstitions?


Religion itself is a superstition. A superstition is defined as "A credulous belief not based on reason or knowledge." Well you can't base a religion on reason or knowledge. To have these things you have to have a way to observe, test, and verify what it is you believe, and religion doesn't lend itself to verification.

Also superstition can be defined as "Applied to beliefs and practices surrounding luck, prophecy and spiritual beings, particularly the irrational belief that future events can be foretold by specific unrelated prior events."
Seems like we hear an awful lot about spiritual beings and prophecy in religion. So we can safely and accurately say that religion is a superstition in and of itself.
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

Do you know what I find funny with these religious attacks? Most of the points mentioned on this and other Atheist vs Religion threads that are aimed against religion are the very points Jesus hated about religion.


Firstly, no one is attacking religion. We are debating specific points put forth and countering personal opinion with demonstrable evidence. This isn't an attack. Secondly, if you go back and look at the OP on the threads you say are "against religion" you will see that it is in fact religious people initiating these discussions, and then claiming to be attacked when someone shows demonstrable evidence that what they are saying is incorrect and/or fallacious.

Atheists aren't going around persecuting religion. We are responding to an invitation to debate. It's the religious people who are claiming to be attacked when the debate shows them to be mistaken. If you aren't open to admitting you may be wrong, don't start a thread on the subject.
IgnoreMe
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IgnoreMe
184 posts
Nomad

I left you people for a day and look what happen? This thread got 8 pages more! Really hard to keep up if it goes on like this.

BTW, I do need a shrink. Just can't find anywhere. Guess I'll just go to the school counselor.

I think this is a no kids thread because kids wouldn't want to go all around arguing about religion. Which makes me think that religion threads shouldn't even be in this forum. But, there is still people who thinks they are old enough to talk stuff like this...Well I think that's kinda confusing. How 'bout this; How old are you people to debate about religion? Just wanna know because some guys just say stuff without knowing what the stuff really really is.

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