ForumsWEPRMuslims?

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DarkestNite
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DarkestNite
166 posts
Nomad

any muslims out there??

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DarkestNite
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DarkestNite
166 posts
Nomad

well that's us... the crazy muslims.
I don't really think that anything I can say will change the fact that you obviously think we ar craxz so I am not exactly sure of the point of this conversation =(

Avorne
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Avorne
3,085 posts
Nomad

There's offended and there is violent. Muslims are well within their rights to be highly offended about religious blasphemy. However, death threats aren't warranted nor are arson or murder attempts. I also don't understand the reason for such reactions to any depiction of Muhammad and not just the offensive ones...

That's why I participate in the 'Draw Muhammad' day.

DarkestNite
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DarkestNite
166 posts
Nomad

again, why do people relate what one person does to the whole Islamic nation??

Avorne
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Avorne
3,085 posts
Nomad

Because it wasn't one person? As I remember it it was a relatively large group of people protesting and being violent.

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

well im a christian i believe god created science and logic god created how everything and how it works


Exhibit A of a Christian who puts religious ideals before scientific and logical ones... Notice how it ads a deity to everything that is unknown.

again, why do people relate what one person does to the whole Islamic nation??


Its not one person. Its thousands, hundreds of thousands, witch tend to get noticed...
DarkestNite
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DarkestNite
166 posts
Nomad

But, if Christians I have seen and the few Muslims I know are any example, they take religion over science and logic, sometimes holding back science and logic because of religion.


how would you explain the universe?
and how about the human mind??



Please watch this video:
http://english.islamway.com/flashpage.php?id=10&cat=2&file_name=ever_wonder&width=550&hight=400
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

how would you explain the universe?
and how about the human mind??


The universe has thousands of explanations, if you mean its creations there may have been a singularity...

The human mind is a bi product of your brain, witch runs on electricity and chemicals that allow it to work. Thought has been a useful adaptation for survival.

And thank you for proving my point...


I would also provide videos to a site, preferably one that has actual logic, but I have never been sufficient in searching the internet...
DarkestNite
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DarkestNite
166 posts
Nomad

Because it wasn't one person? As I remember it it was a relatively large group of people protesting and being violent.


You mean like the WTO protest in '99 in seattle??
does that mean that i can drag in the religion of the protesters?? if a jew protested, does it mean that every jew is violently against WTO?
DarkestNite
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DarkestNite
166 posts
Nomad

Consciousness makes evolutionary sense only if one does not start far enough back; if, that is to say, one fails to assume a consistent and sincere materialist position, beginning with a world without consciousness, and then considers whether there could be putative biological drivers for organisms to become conscious. This is the only valid starting point for those who look to evolution to explain consciousness, given that the history of matter has overwhelmingly been without conscious life, indeed without history. Once the viewpoint of consistent materialism is assumed, it ceases to be self-evident that it is a good thing to experience what is there, that it will make an organism better able so to position itself in the causal net as to increase the probability of replication of its genomic material. On the contrary, even setting aside the confusional states it is prone to, and the sleep it requires, consciousness seems like the worst possible evolutionary move.

314d1
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314d1
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Nomad

You mean like the WTO protest in '99 in seattle??
does that mean that i can drag in the religion of the protesters?? if a jew protested, does it mean that every jew is violently against WTO?


If every person in it was Jewish doing it for Jewish reasons, than yes. But in this example, they are all/mostly Muslims doing it for Muslim reasons.

everythin? i believe i gave you 1 example and why does that suddenly mean i put a deity into everything


Everything that is UNKNOWN. Please learn to read.

You put your deity as the creator of the universe, and probably the creator of the human mind, witch are two important unknowns that you just put him in. And if you put him as not only the creator but as the mechanic as well, then you literally put him in EVERYTHING!.
DarkestNite
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DarkestNite
166 posts
Nomad

This conversation has been civil up till now... please let's not ruin a perfectly nice thread.

314d1
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314d1
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Nomad

Consciousness makes evolutionary sense only if one does not start far enough back; if, that is to say, one fails to assume a consistent and sincere materialist position, beginning with a world without consciousness, and then considers whether there could be putative biological drivers for organisms to become conscious. This is the only valid starting point for those who look to evolution to explain consciousness, given that the history of matter has overwhelmingly been without conscious life, indeed without history. Once the viewpoint of consistent materialism is assumed, it ceases to be self-evident that it is a good thing to experience what is there, that it will make an organism better able so to position itself in the causal net as to increase the probability of replication of its genomic material. On the contrary, even setting aside the confusional states it is prone to, and the sleep it requires, consciousness seems like the worst possible evolutionary move.


Who is to say that the first life had conciseness? I would say with a good amount of certainty that they do not have large enough brains, there "brains" being nucleus at the time. At this point it would be fair to mention what "thought" is. Would you consider a dog to have thought? It can obviously see were it is going- but does it imagine? Does it have its own deities? Then continue down the list of intelligence as far as you wish until you answer "No" to a similar question. If that is the case, the animal can still sense its surroundings. Here it depends on your definition.

SLEEP IS NOT REQUIRED FOR CONSCIOUS THOUGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That very fact proves you know little about it! Thought allows you to know what you are doing, and to plan a head. So instead of walking from your home to the watering hole and drinking from it every day, with conciseness you can, if you have the ability to, build a bucket and bring water to your home. Intelligence is probably the greatest evolutionary trait ever.
DarkestNite
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DarkestNite
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Nomad

ouch... very.. rude

not my words... an atheists words!

Thoughtful atheists admit that Darwinism cannot account for the human mind. In a recent edition of The Philosophers Magazine atheist Raymond Tallis writes:

"Consciousness makes evolutionary sense only if one does not start far enough back; if, that is to say, one fails to assume a consistent and sincere materialist position, beginning with a world without consciousness, and then considers whether there could be putative biological drivers for organisms to become conscious. This is the only valid starting point for those who look to evolution to explain consciousness, given that the history of matter has overwhelmingly been without conscious life, indeed without history. Once the viewpoint of consistent materialism is assumed, it ceases to be self-evident that it is a good thing to experience what is there, that it will make an organism better able so to position itself in the causal net as to increase the probability of replication of its genomic material. On the contrary, even setting aside the confusional states it is prone to, and the sleep it requires, consciousness seems like the worst possible evolutionary move.

"If there isnât an evolutionary explanation of consciousness, then the world is more interesting than biologists would allow. And it gets even more interesting if we unbundle different modes of consciousness. There are clearly separate problems in trying to explain on the one hand the transition to sentience and on the other the transition from sentience to the propositional awareness of human beings that underpins the public sphere in which they live and have their being, where they consciously utilise the laws of nature, transform their environment into an artefactscape, appeal to norms in a collective that is sustained by deliberate intentions rather than being a lattice of dovetailing automaticities, and write books such as The Origin of Species. Those who are currently advocating evolutionary or neuro-evolutionary explanations of the most complex manifestations of consciousness in human life, preaching neuro-evolutionary aesthetics, law, ethics, economics, history, theology etc, should consider whether the failure to explain any form of consciousness, never mind human consciousness, in evolutionary terms, might not pull the rug from under their fashionable feet."

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2009/11/atheist-admits-human-mind-cannot-be.html

DarkestNite
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DarkestNite
166 posts
Nomad

lol why are we all mad right now??

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

not my words... an atheists words!


I thought they were not your words, as he capitalized the I. This atheist obviously does not no what he is doing then.

"If there isn�t an evolutionary explanation of consciousness, then the world is more interesting than biologists would allow. And it gets even more interesting if we unbundle different modes of consciousness. There are clearly separate problems in trying to explain on the one hand the transition to sentience and on the other the transition from sentience to the propositional awareness of human beings that underpins the public sphere in which they live and have their being, where they consciously utilise the laws of nature, transform their environment into an artefactscape, appeal to norms in a collective that is sustained by deliberate intentions rather than being a lattice of dovetailing automaticities, and write books such as The Origin of Species. Those who are currently advocating evolutionary or neuro-evolutionary explanations of the most complex manifestations of consciousness in human life, preaching neuro-evolutionary aesthetics, law, ethics, economics, history, theology etc, should consider whether the failure to explain any form of consciousness, never mind human consciousness, in evolutionary terms, might not pull the rug from under their fashionable feet."


Changing your environment has been rather useful-hasn't it? We are not the only species to do it, and every species that does it does rather well. Some species have been shown to make homes, ex birds. Some species have been shown to have a form of law and even language, such as wolves and apes. They do much better than they would if they had not this trait.

And for an example were something that may have consciousness and does not sleep-Sharks. They do not "sleep" and yet they have simple strategies for catching fish, hinting consciousness.
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