ForumsWEPR[concluded] Was Jesus real?

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holt24
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holt24
1,133 posts
Nomad

This is not about whether or not he was the son of God but whether he actually existed.Most atheists agree that he did live but there are some who don't so what are you're thoughts?

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Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
1,322 posts
Farmer

true... but i would think it would be on a slightly smaller scale than 9/11... as 9/11 was known almost instantly almost everywhere in the civilized world... or the parts of the world that allowed it to be discussed... which i'm sure was almost all of the world over.

almost everyone nowadays can read and write... i'm not sure of the literacy rates of the general populace back then. the person we call Jesus didn't immediately affect the world as a whole. He was only ever in a very small area relative to the actual size of the world. it would not have been difficult for a group of people to approach everyone and request all texts regarding the "false prophet" be handed over... or that the general populace destroy said documents and never talk about it so that the "cult" would die... According to Ripley's Believe it or Not museum in St. Augustine Florida we've lost something to the effect of 48 hours. Its actually 2 days ahead of what it is now... but some person over calendars a long time ago made an Uh-oh and lost 2 days...so the whole time frame being off argument may only mean that someone else somewhere in time screwed up w/ their dates.

as for the other part... i can't really contest it that much. i'm not sure as to where ur pulling that from... but maybe the people never met him and so didn't really believe he was a flesh and blood person... but a spiritual entity b/c of the supposed actions he did were unbelievable for a flesh and blood human to accomplish...but i'm just speculating from here. and i'm also aware of other mythological figures with high similarities to Jesus... another contributor to the doubt i foster from time to time... but even with low probability, things still happen some times... take creation for that matter

selsCT
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selsCT
23 posts
Nomad

I thing he was real!

billybobjo2
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billybobjo2
135 posts
Nomad

I dunno. This is a little personal don't you think....It depends on your religion. You mentioned atheists and no other religions...

FinnDragon
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FinnDragon
993 posts
Blacksmith

Yes he was.Jesus was a real person, onlything that you need to believe is that did he really do those miracle this which are mentioned in the Bible.
And I am atheist!

tiger25691
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tiger25691
159 posts
Farmer

GOD IS REAL WETHER YOU BELIEVE IN HIM OR NOT

Avorne
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Avorne
3,085 posts
Nomad

GOD IS REAL WETHER YOU BELIEVE IN HIM OR NOT


We've been over this time and time again with countless religious people - if you haven't got the proof then don't make the claim. You can't prove that God is real so don't be so arrogant as to assert your silly little claim as fact.
valkery
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valkery
1,255 posts
Nomad

Jesus existed. Get over the fact that you disagree with him, and at least realize that the man did exist. If you want to contend it, take up your argument with the worlds population of Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, any sect of those religions, and most atheists. I know that mass belief does not validate anything, but ancient texts from numerous religions all point to his existance. Whether or not he was the son of god, is always going to be in question, but you shouldn't question his life. There was a man, his name was Jesus. Read this you Mofo's

I am not saying that the link is right or wrong on his being the "Son of God," but it answers the question nicely.

Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

I completely agree some guy with a god complex existed, and that his story got mis construed via word of mouth and time.

Zydrate
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Zydrate
383 posts
Farmer

I think it's viable, even as an Atheist. He just got whisked in some silly legend.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

If you want to contend it, take up your argument with the worlds population of Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, any sect of those religions, and most atheists. I know that mass belief does not validate anything,


Then why are you using it as if it's some sort of justification?

but ancient texts from numerous religions all point to his existance


This also isn't proof. Also most if not all of these religions stem from the same source, so of course they will have similarities. Far as I know non of them tell the same story about the guy either.

To use your own link.
"The simple truth is, that the four Gospels are historically worthless. They abound in contradictions, in the unreasonable, the miraculous and the monstrous. There is not a thing in them that can be depended upon as true, while there is much in them that we certainly know to be false."

Read this you Mofo's


You might want to consider reading it yourself.

"John E. Remsburg, in his scholarly work on "The Christ," has compiled a list of forty-two writers who lived and wrote during the time or within a century after the time, of Christ, not one of whom ever mentioned him."

"The name "Jesus" was as common among the Jews as is William or George with us. In the writings of Josephus, we find accounts of a number of Jesuses. One was Jesus, the son of Sapphias, the founder of a seditious band of mariners; another was Jesus, the captain of the robbers whose followers fled when they heard of his arrest; still another Jesus was a monomaniac who for seven years went about Jerusalem, crying, "Woe, woe, woe unto Jerusalem!" who was bruised and beaten many times, but offered no resistance; and who was finally killed with a stone at the siege of Jerusalem."

And concludes.

"Yes, the character of Christ could have been invented! The literature of the world is filled with invented characters; and the imaginary lives of the splendid men and women of fiction will forever arrest the interest of the mind and hold the heart enthralled. But how account for Christianity if Christ did not live? Let me ask another question. How account for the Renaissance, for the Reformation, for the French Revolution, or for Socialism? Not one of these movements was created by an individual. They grew. Christianity grew. The Christian church is older than the oldest Christian writings. Christ did not produce the church. The church produced the story of Christ.

The Jesus Christ of the Gospels could not possibly have been a real person. He is a combination of impossible elements. There may have lived in Palestine, nineteen centuries ago, a man whose name was Jesus, who went about doing good, who was followed by admiring associates, and who in the end met a violent death. But of this possible person, not a line was written when he lived, and of his life and character the world of to-day knows absolutely nothing. This Jesus, if he lived, was a man; and if he was a reformer, he was but one of many that have lived and died in every age of the world. When the world shall have learned that the Christ of the Gospels is a myth, that Christianity is untrue, it will turn its attention from the religious fictions of the past to the vital problems of to-day, and endeavor to solve them for the improvement of the well-being of the real men and women whom we know, and whom we ought to help and love."
AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
1,573 posts
Blacksmith

I like the about us blurb on their website. It makes for inspiring reading.


Why You Should Care

Life is short. Nevertheless, billions of people invest incalculable hours making fruitless pleas to nonexistent gods, participating in lavish rituals with no tangible effects, and whittling away tight budgets to support extravagant religious institutions or "spiritual advisors." Worse still, antiquated religious ideas lead people to impose needless hardships on themselves and others, to rationalize discrimination and other forms of mistreatment, and to hasten environmental destruction because they believe that "the end of the world" is imminent anyway. And for every outward manifestation of wasteful, counterproductive, and even downright harmful activity motivated only by religious belief, there are countless instances that are not nearly so obvious.

Religious belief has exacted a toll on people's emotional well-being as well. Just how much energy has been drained searching for meaning where none is to be found, or been squandered on false hopes and unwarranted fears? How many believers have agonized over the uncertain destination of their loved ones after death? How many have struggled to discern exactly what they did to displease God after falling victim to a natural disaster? How many have been tormented trying to make sense of why God allows terrible things to happen to good people? In the absence of any clear revelation about what God wants us to do, how many have fretted about whether their own actions or beliefs, or those of the people dearest to them, are enough to avoid hellfire?

How many of those who have lost their faith in old age have looked back at all the missed opportunities, the roads not taken, the life that could have been, had they not been born in a religious household, or had they abandoned religion in their younger days! Imagine how deep the regrets must be for the former missionary, seminary student, or long-time minister after realizing that this life is probably the only life that one will ever have.



Really makes me think.

Yes, the character of Christ could have been invented! The literature of the world is filled with invented characters; and the imaginary lives of the splendid men and women of fiction will forever arrest the interest of the mind and hold the heart enthralled. But how account for Christianity if Christ did not live? Let me ask another question. How account for the Renaissance, for the Reformation, for the French Revolution, or for Socialism? Not one of these movements was created by an individual. They grew. Christianity grew. The Christian church is older than the oldest Christian writings. Christ did not produce the church. The church produced the story of Christ.


This is pretty much how I feel.


I also apologise for the wall of text that is mostly not mine.
Kevin4762
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Kevin4762
2,420 posts
Nomad

He's only mentioned in the Bible. No where else is he mentioned. I doubt he ever existed.

valkery
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valkery
1,255 posts
Nomad

Far as I know non of them tell the same story about the guy either.


Right there! You concluded that the man existed for you.

Also, if the name Jesus was as common as the link I posted claimed, than certainly, he existed. Anyway you look at it, a man named Jesus lived in that time period, near Jerusalem. The only thing left to quibble over was whether or not he was the son of god.

Oh, and if you are inclined to take for truth what was posted in that website, realize that the only thing that it has to back any of it's statements up are ancient texts that date back to the time of Jesus, near Jerusalem. If that is the only excuse you have to refute the Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, and other religions texts, please just realize that the same types of text are the only thing keeping your idea sound...

I am not arguing for either side, I am just trying to answer the question and make the world a little less dumb.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Right there! You concluded that the man existed for you.


What? No I didn't conclude he existed by stating the stories of him differ. I can say the same thing for stories of countless other fictional characters, but it doesn't mean I'm concluding there existence in reality.

Also, if the name Jesus was as common as the link I posted claimed, than certainly, he existed.


There are numerous people named John Smith living in and around New York. That however doesn't mean a story about John Smith from New York is about or even based on a real person.

Oh, and if you are inclined to take for truth what was posted in that website, realize that the only thing that it has to back any of it's statements up are ancient texts that date back to the time of Jesus, near Jerusalem. If that is the only excuse you have to refute the Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, and other religions texts, please just realize that the same types of text are the only thing keeping your idea sound.


I'm not using it in that way. However you were posting it up saying it claims Jesus Christ existed when it says nothing of the sort.

I am not arguing for either side, I am just trying to answer the question and make the world a little less dumb.


I would recommend starting with your self.
starcraftfan123
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starcraftfan123
254 posts
Nomad

@valkery

I agree with wolf on every aspect. Jesus was a real man. He was wise and kind. BUT, he was not the son of a deity. He did NOT walk on water.
Also, only idiots of blind faith think that he was a demigod-of-sorts.

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