ForumsWEPRWhere do we go after we die?

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44Flames
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44Flames
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Nomad

Do we continue life in HEAVEN for EVER and what would we do if that happened?

OR do we continue live in HELL for EVER suffering because we all sinned?

This is probably the hardest question in the world to answer but I want to know what you think will happen to us?

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thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
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The miracles that the apostles experienced, the fact that some of the stuff he said has becaome true hundereds of years later.


Mage covered this pretty well. Miracles are all based on hearsay and personal testimony and what a single person believed - and since the apostles were so devoted to Jesus, it's not a stretch to say that they witnessed him do something and then they blew it way out of proportion to propagate the idea that he was the messiah, or to convince themselves that he was. And self-fulfilling prophecies are pretty easy to make, too. Can you give examples of some of the prophecies that came true?
wajor59
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wajor59
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Where do I think we go after we die?
The short answer is our bodies die and then decay even if we're embalmed we still mummify. I believe we each have a spirit and this is released after death but I have no idea where the physical place is, thus the mystery.

Consience make it even more likeley that a soul exists.


According to Wiki, John Locke author of An Essay Concerning Human Understanding, first appearing in 1690 describes consciousness as "the repeated self-identification of oneself". He goes on to argue that "you may be judged only for the acts of your body, as this is what is apparent to all but God; however, you are in truth only responsible for the acts for which you are conscious" (of). Wiki goes on to say that this forms the basis of the insanity defense: one cannot be held accountable for acts from which one was unconscious."

I would like to go a step further and say that not all criminals have a conscience and truly do not feel remorse after commiting murder or other heinous crimes.


Conscienceness doesn't make the existence of a soul any more likely either. A conscience is just an emergent property from the activity of the brain. Due to a lack of understanding, we've just tacked on these metaphysical properties to it. In fact even today we don't have a clear definition of what this is. Which makes using it as evidence for a soul all that more unreliable.


This is my definition of soul:
I believe that humans are individuals with essence of eternal life. We each have a separate identity because of our power to reason with our minds to weigh for ourselves what is and isn't truth, philosophically. This essence is what makes my experience different from yours even if we both share in the same activity. It's what makes my emotions stronger than yours or conversely weaker. It's what makes me a lousy athelete but a great cook, for instance.

I also believe that Socrates, Plato and Aristotle were close to describing the true essence of human beings but fall short when saying "the incorporeal, eternal occupant of our being is continually reborn in subsequent bodies", such as Plato says. "Aristotle didn't consider the soul to be separate and therefore would cease to exist upon death."

I believe that our souls are eternal and leave the body after the person dies, not at death like so many believe. I witnessed my parents deaths and couldn't be present when my brother died. I was able to say goodbye to my parents and experience their spirits leave their body long after their hearts and minds cease to function. I hour for my mom and 32 minutes for my dad. My brother was in a coma when he was pronounced dead. I moved my family into his house one month later and was haunted by a strong presence that would not leave until I prayed 3 times for my brother's spirit to be gone from the house and join Jesus Christ. I have never felt that presence since.
I know, there isn't a way to prove this experience by rationalism but instead with empiricism. I do agree with Mage in saying that we still don't have a clear definition for consciousness or for that matter conscience.




To: Alt, you raise an interesting point by wanting to know which prophecies came true.

Please read the book of Daniel as this is the history of the kings involved and are corroborated by the kings records.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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This essence is what makes my experience different from yours even if we both share in the same activity. It's what makes my emotions stronger than yours or conversely weaker. It's what makes me a lousy athelete but a great cook, for instance.


If this is the result of an immaterial soul, than why would physical changes to the brain have any effect on any of this?

I was able to say goodbye to my parents and experience their spirits leave their body long after their hearts and minds cease to function. I hour for my mom and 32 minutes for my dad. My brother was in a coma when he was pronounced dead. I moved my family into his house one month later and was haunted by a strong presence that would not leave until I prayed 3 times for my brother's spirit to be gone from the house and join Jesus Christ. I have never felt that presence since.


This is likely just your own mind trying to cope with the situation. Given your views you likely just interpreted it as a spiritual event.
manny6574
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manny6574
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[quote]Because then i wouldn't be writing this.


How does that prove anything?[/quote]

If jesus came 400 years ago, I would be in heaven/hell.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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If jesus came 400 years ago, I would be in heaven/hell.


If I'm not to mistaken Earth was suppose to become hell after the fact.
thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
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If jesus came 400 years ago, I would be in heaven/hell.


Are you sure? Do you have any way to substantiate that whatsoever? Really, a lot of your arguments are empty when unsubstantiated, and so far you haven't backed up anything you've said.
goumas13
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goumas13
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May I ask why exactly 400 years?

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

May I ask why exactly 400 years?


I'm guessing that was just an arbitrary number.
wajor59
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wajor59
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Nomad

If this is the result of an immaterial soul, than why would physical changes to the brain have any effect on any of this?


I did not know that "changes to the brain" could "have any effect and I also not understand why this essence has to be immaterial? I equate this essence to my personality that I regard as being separate from my mind and other organs. It's the part of me that makes me unique.
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
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What is being pointed out is that if indeed we do have an immaterial soul then it would be illogical for material changes to our bodies to have any effect on said soul. Yet this is what is claimed when one speaks of having a soul which experiences some form of existence after our death.

There really are only two logical conclusions one can make. Either we do have an immaterial and untestable soul and as such material changes would have no effect on it, or we do not have a soul. If we do have a material soul then we would be able to observe, measure, and verify this which he have not found to be the case. If the soul is indeed immaterial then it is not bound to or affected by occurrences in the material realm.

HahiHa
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HahiHa
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If the soul is indeed immaterial then it is not bound to or affected by occurrences in the material realm.

... and since loss of certain brain areas can lead to personality changes, one can doubt this immaterial soul exists.
There's one thing that always bothered me with this afterlife thing. Let's assume there is a soul, and it goes to heaven or hell. A human being experiences changes during it's life, as a child it is playful and not quite aware of some things, then it matures, and to the end it possibly degenerates. Which state is the one that enters afterlife? How is it represented, or in other words, which "age"? Or do we have no visual appearance in afterlife, no set of behavior typical for a certain age?

I'm not sure if I'm clear, but I tried...
44Flames
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44Flames
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Nomad

Okay so the reason we have a universe could possibly be because of God who made the Big Bang and perpisoly made a planet that was lucky enough to have a stable atmosphere. So there is a God and that means he must have a heaven for everyone just what do you do think of ideas!

Einfach
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Einfach
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actually, the big bang needed no god. As for stable atmosphere, mathematically speaking, using the same ratio of life supporting planets in our solar system, there are well over a million life supporting planets out of the sextellion estimated planets.


And that's discounting our carbon chauvinism.
CrossViper
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CrossViper
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Where do we go after we die?


We don't?
yielee
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yielee
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and since loss of certain brain areas can lead to personality changes, one can doubt this immaterial soul exists.


I was told if you cut off your arm or lose a part of your brain, it's still just the same only higher up. The brain is just the first relay. You have the soul to the brain relay and the brain to the body relay. Whenever you lose a part of your brain the soul isn't affected your still the same. You just can't make your brain behave the way the soul wants, just like the brain can't make the body behave the way it wants if you lost your arm.
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