ForumsWEPRDebate: Jesus is Lord

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cddm95ace
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cddm95ace
165 posts
Nomad

I believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and died on the cross for all our sins and did miracles his whole life.

What do you believe, and why?

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314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

You've never read "To Kill a Mockingbird" in English class have you?


Actually that is coming up about next month.... Now I am almost afraid to ask why.
samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

Actually that is coming up about next month.... Now I am almost afraid to ask why.


Lets just say that the number of times he gets shot is related to the number of people in the court room that failed him. That's normal for the story.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Lets just say that the number of times he gets shot is related to the number of people in the court room that failed him. That's normal for the story.


Well I assume that is why we are reading it around Halloween, it sounds like this is going to give me analytical nightmares... The projects are probably going to kill me, being a realist and all...

But hey, in science analyzing everything as far as you can is a good thing. I think I will stick with science...
samy
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samy
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Nomad

Well I assume that is why we are reading it around Halloween, it sounds like this is going to give me analytical nightmares... The projects are probably going to kill me, being a realist and all...


No kidding, pick up on what his glasses mean quickly; it has something to do with his personality I can't recall it off the top of my head. Anyway teachers like it when you get the glasses.

But hey, in science analyzing everything as far as you can is a good thing. I think I will stick with science...


True.
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
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Shepherd

Faith and &quotersonal" evidence.


The lovely thing about these things is that they are personal. That's it. You can't show them to anyone, no one can observe them, and you can't even objectively determine that these perceptions are even correct.

The schizophrenic who hears voices is having a 'ersonal experience' and he has faith that those voices are real. So how can an outside observer say whether one who claims to talk to God and have a personal relationship with him is any more correct than the schizophrenic who has a teddy bear that tells him to eat his neighbor's cat?

The point here is that if you have a personal belief in a deity then great. It's wonderful that you have found something that makes your life better. But remember that it is a personal belief based on personal perspectives. You cannot convince a rational, analytical person of something simply based on personal experiences.

These amount to opinion and conjecture and are not a basis for a logical debate, nor for anything which is more than personal. For all we know, your personal experience of God is latent schizophrenia or some form of depression at work.

In fact, in psychology we classify a delusion as "a system of belief in which the person is preoccupied and holds firmly to yet lacks supporting evidence and is logically absurd." As a psych major I have to say that religion is a delusion. All of it is. There is no evidence, nor logical conclusion based on proven premises which will arrive at a supernatural being.
cddm95ace
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cddm95ace
165 posts
Nomad

MRWalker82- I find it a little insulting that you went past my belief system to call me personally as someone suffering for schizophrenia or depression. However, that was a very analytic comment. It basically sums up the problem of trying to change the mind of someone you don't know on the Internet. You can't believe me, because you don't know me, and visa-versa.

If we are to believe in God, the only way to do this is to go outside science and earthly systems. If you are not willing to believe that the impossible might be possible, you CANNOT believe in God.

MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
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Shepherd

I find it a little insulting that you went past my belief system to call me personally as someone suffering for schizophrenia or depression.


Not what I said. I said that the symptoms of schizophrenia are sometimes parallel to belief in the supernatural, whether it be ghosts, deities, angels, or extraterrestrials with fancy anal probes.

They are all based on a personal experience which cannot be demonstrated to exist as anything other than an illusion, and many people cite having identical experiences yet draw different conclusions.

The fact of the matter is that these do not exist anywhere except in your mind. And, since they only exist in your head, there is no way to determine if they are true, or if you are interpreting them correctly, or if they are even real. So by all means, believe what you want. Just don't get upset when others think you're delusional, because that's exactly what such a belief is.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

Drumming up some debate on here was exactly what I was hoping to do with the questions. So thank you for replying, especially you cddm95ace since you actually hold these beliefs.

Do you acknowledge that there are some things unexplainable by science? If you do, then this can explain why we believe this.


I acknowledge that there are things that are currently unexplained. However this doesn't explain to me why you believe something that is unverified. This also doesn't explain why things that do have explanations get dismissed. If I don't know something I say "I don't know". For instance I don't know exactly how every part of my car works. Since I don't know how these parts work I don't say "it must be magic pixies because I don't have a better explanation" I say "I don't know".

Take for instance, if someone instantly appeared in front of you and predicted what would happen in an hour, disappeared, and was right.


314d1 posed one possible explanation for such an event if it took place. We often search for patterns even when there are non.

Then, when you told someone, they gave you scientific evidence of why that was impossible.


You can only prove something. So in this sense the scientific evidence would have to be proving something contradictory to what I saw. I wouldn't dismiss such evidence based solely on an unverifiable experience. I would then have to either verify what I saw was accurate, perhaps by finding this guy again and seeing if he can make predictions under controlled conditions.

Would you believe that you were hallucinating, or that the impossible did happen?


I wouldn't discount the possibility that I imagined the whole thing.

I choose faith because i know that this life is not all it is,


This is exactly what I mean. Your just asserting that you know something that you don't actually know. Yes I'm sure you have a feeling indicating this but that's not verifiable and feelings can often be wrong.

For those who have truly found it, and rediscovered it, it is God.


Again this is an assertion, you don't actually know this.

I have watch many of you who say that you feel lonely after leaving God for atheism. This feeling they say is quenched with earthly pleasures and friendships. If this truly works, why have many of you confessed it occasionally comes back? This is your soul longing for God, and God reaching out to try to bring you back.


So your saying you've never felt lonely in your life? I also said I felt loney before I stopped believing in a god as well. In fact I feel better as an atheist then I ever did holding any theistic belief.
How do I know it's my soul longing for God and not because I am a social animal not receiving the level of social interaction I require? The difference is instead of coming up with a social situation in my head that I convince myself is real, I actually go and find real social situations to take part in.

Meet one, Christianity was a lot warmer; more friendly. Alas, I came across the truth and I cannot return although I wish I could.


Didn't you also say you felt freer?

I suppose the saying is correct, ignorance is bliss.


And knowledge is power.

You can't believe me, because you don't know me, and visa-versa.


It doesn't take personally knowing someone to believe them when they back up what they are saying with verifiable facts.

If we are to believe in God, the only way to do this is to go outside science and earthly systems. If you are not willing to believe that the impossible might be possible, you CANNOT believe in God.


the impossible being possible is a contradiction in terms.

Your statement basically asks that we ignore what is verifiable in favor of what is not verifiable, which get's right back to my original questioning as to why this is better. Also with the Christian God he supposedly has cause physical phenomena that if had happened would be scientifically verifiable.
Alexander116
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Alexander116
107 posts
Shepherd

To all debating the case for science: If you think about it and look up religion in a dictionary the way you guys interpret science means that science is by definition your god and sense people make up all work that is science in an essence you are worshiping them with your thoughts and actions. I do not mean this to be offensive! all I'm saying is all of us need something "higher up" in our lives to look up to. For people like cddm95ace it is a loving caring God who cares to have a personal relationship with his disciples and for people like MRwalker it is science.
I did leave out a lot as I was limited by time, but try to take this for its general concept and not all its little flaws or inconstancies, please.

Alexander116
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Alexander116
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Shepherd

It doesn't take personally knowing someone to believe them when they back up what they are saying with verifiable facts.

This may be this way for you but it is not for many people, this is from personal experience.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

To all debating the case for science: If you think about it and look up religion in a dictionary the way you guys interpret science means that science is by definition your god and sense people make up all work that is science in an essence you are worshiping them with your thoughts and actions. I do not mean this to be offensive! all I'm saying is all of us need something "higher up" in our lives to look up to.


The thing is it's not being worshiped or looked at as something higher then us. It's simply a tool to use. One that has proven to be ever effective at it's goal.

I did leave out a lot as I was limited by time, but try to take this for its general concept and not all its little flaws or inconstancies, please.


Your general concept is flawed.

This may be this way for you but it is not for many people, this is from personal experience.


So your saying to believe, let's take "the sky appears blue during the day" you would have to first know me personally before you believed me? Even if I were able to show you pictures and you could go out during a clear day and compare those pictures to the real thing seeing for yourself that?
camster98
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camster98
51 posts
Nomad

i am a jesus follower aswell- i beleave on the lord jesus christ and i beleave that he died on the cross for our sins

ShiningLegend
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ShiningLegend
15 posts
Nomad

Yes, I believe in non-contemporary worship of the Christ. I am a follower of his and if by his grace always will be.

Asherlee
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Asherlee
5,001 posts
Shepherd

Guys - this is not a topic to just state your beliefs. Please participate in the debate or don't post at all.

samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

And knowledge is power.


So, the choice is bliss or power. Hm.

Didn't you also say you felt freer?


I do, it's like being released from an overly crowded box to an empty expanse of land.
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