ForumsWEPREducation for the Masses

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AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
1,573 posts
Blacksmith

What I mean by that is...

Education that is used to keep the masses of people in line. I came across the link below and it makes a very interesting bit of reading.
AgainstSchool.com

I have always questioned the school system and the ways of teaching.

Why do schools start the day at 8-9 am and as you get into later years they actually increase the time you spend there which is quite obviously detrimental to the child's routine. i.e. go somewhere they don't like, stuck in class instead of running around, hate the work, forced to work, threatened with punishment if they dont work, parents threatened with punishment and imprisonment if they dont send child to school...

Why do schools actively push a certain criteria into their teaching and do NOT teach you your rights when it comes to law, the police and your available power?

Why do schools still largely follow a religious angle when its very well known that the young mind is open to manipulation especially when its put on them from their &quoteers" i.e. the older kids. Like sacrificial lambs to the slaughter (sorry couldnt resist)

Why do schools allow corporations to advertise and sometimes even sell products within the establishment that are detrimental to both the health and mind of students and/or manipulate them into buying the products e.g. coca-cola, cadburys, starbucks, McDonalds etc

Your thoughts and opinions would be enlightening. Please read the article because agree or not, the guy has a point.

  • 43 Replies
Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
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Jester

I dunno. We had a similar policy in school where such dress behavior wasn't tolerated; we would send them a belt or freshly-clean pairs of jeans and shirts. Repeat offenders probably got in trouble, but hey, at least this is meaningful! Dressing as either of them or *gasp* both is just disgusting! It may be obscene in some state or local governments!

wolf1991
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wolf1991
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Farmer

Loco you're speaking from an elementary school perspective, you've yet to experience highschool. My arguements still stand that the system is nearly devoid of creativity, but I'm merely refering to highschool and below. I've yet to attend university. Though I know most university don't care much for their liberal art programs (English, History, Philosophy ect)

locoace3
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locoace3
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Nomad

Loco you're speaking from an elementary school perspective, you've yet to experience highschool. My arguements still stand that the system is nearly devoid of creativity, but I'm merely refering to highschool and below. I've yet to attend university. Though I know most university don't care much for their liberal art programs (English, History, Philosophy ect)


wut? i'm in middle school 8th grade and that's what my school has in the way of creativity
Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
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Jester

Yeah, you can pretty much speak like an adult in college or in a university, though when you are asked to sound professional, GOD HELP YOU SOUND PROFESSIONAL! Come on, higher education rocks. You can even call the teachers by their first names, unless they want to formally be called Mr.Mrs.Professor,Doctor, etc.

crazyrussian97
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crazyrussian97
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Shepherd

Though I know most university don't care much for their liberal art programs (English, History, Philosophy ect)

I think what is more useless is math. They should make it much less mandatory for many careers, because it is difficult, time consuming and overall useless. The majority of people do not use it and the effort could be better placed in the person's career choice.
AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
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Blacksmith

Was doing the dishes

So you don't start in noon or afternoon. It makes much more sense to start early and end in the afternoon. Plus, you get room to fit in extra-curricular activities and school-wide events.


Have smaller school days.

you can be trained to accept longer time periods.


Exactly my point. I dont like this.

you cannot learn by yourself, because it's obvious you can't and especially won't


This is simply not true. Children thrive on learning. What they hate is being told HOW to learn.

Parents are forced to send kids to school because it is the law. If your population does not have a strong enough graduation rate, the community suffers.


The law is not the be all and end all of living life. Its meant to be there for a purpose. And who suffers? You mean all the shelf stacker's with degree's?

Your laws are in the school's handbook? The Constitution? The Miranda Rights?


No they are not. The constitution is not covering the wide spectrum of rights you have in the USA and not only that, but from where Im sitting on the other side of the Atlantic, the constitution gets bypassed whenever someone in power pushes hard enough. Then people have to push back. And regardless of the constitution, which is a totally meaningless charade now, in the UK there is no classes within the schools teaching you what to say or not to say when a policeman approaches you. Why not?

Some schools still enforce active prayer before class starts, while being forced to do the Pledge of Allegiance.


But this is no different from forcing you to stick to a particular routine and threatening you with the law.

Some schools may, but it didn't fly with the administration at my school. My school enforced the health policy in which no snacks or soft drinks could be sold until after school hours and no fatty, oily, starchy foods could be sold at the lunch line. If schools advertise these corporations and said products, then they are encouraging multiple branches of consequences to the students.


This needs to happen more often and the schools should be getting government backing. More often that not they have healthy opposition within government and these companies have the money to lobby for the right to advertise etc.

the fact that in school they teach you stuff that you don't need to know depending on what occupation you want they should let you choose and change depending on what you wanna be


I took that to mean, if I wanted to be a carpenter one day and a musician the next, the school would give me a chance to try different walks of life. I like this idea.

To my mind, the North American system is geared toward solely business, math and science.


Every single school system in the world is geared towards math, business and science. How many African students do you know who have come to UK or USA after studying art?!? Its ALWAYS business or science etc...

In fact, the cuts to schools in the UK have focused on the "less important" subjects such as music and art.

You might want to get in the habit of monitoring your language then, because if you did that at a job (except perhaps the construction industries) you'd get fired for that type of behavior.


Which is the exact kind of behaviour the school is trying to "learn" out of you. So you can be a drone and do your work without kicking up a fuss and if you feel like you wanna.... uh uh... fired! Sit down and shut up or we will fire you! Great I can see how I should just agree with you there.

I dunno. We had a similar policy in school where such dress behavior wasn't tolerated; we would send them a belt or freshly-clean pairs of jeans and shirts. Repeat offenders probably got in trouble, but hey, at least this is meaningful! Dressing as either of them or *gasp* both is just disgusting! It may be obscene in some state or local governments!


And how is it meaningful? You mean so they can dress clean so as not to upset anyone else?!?

I think some of you are missing the point entirely here. In fact, you are reinforcing the point by saying "conform" whilst arguing that the school is doing the right thing!

"Be thankful we arent dying, sit down and shut up!" "be thankful you have food, shut up and eat this crap" "be thankful you have education, shut up and listen!"

I know not all schools are the same and if you go into a rich area you suddenly see an increase in the levels of intelligence and grades. I doubt very much its because rich people are smarter.

And the guy in the article didnt say smart people dont come out of schools. He said smart people can come without schools AS WELL.
locoace3
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locoace3
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Nomad

I took that to mean, if I wanted to be a carpenter one day and a musician the next, the school would give me a chance to try different walks of life. I like this idea.


^.^ yes! some days i don't want to write a story like an author sometimes i wanna try what it's like to be a programmer see if i like it !


Which is the exact kind of behaviour the school is trying to "learn" out of you. So you can be a drone and do your work without kicking up a fuss and if you feel like you wanna.... uh uh... fired! Sit down and shut up or we will fire you! Great I can see how I should just agree with you there.


T.T that's not fun


"Be thankful we arent dying, sit down and shut up!" "be thankful you have food, shut up and eat this crap" "be thankful you have education, shut up and listen!"


hey that's half the argument against complainers right there!
Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
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Jester

Have smaller school days.


Then you must have more school days to meet the needs of the state.

Exactly my point. I dont like this.


Then you must deal with it and adapt. Depending on what job you have, situations could be even worse. School is there to teach and train you the fundamentals of modern labor, plus everything a child with a standard education needs to know.

The law is not the be all and end all of living life. Its meant to be there for a purpose. And who suffers? You mean all the shelf stacker's with degree's?


It's meant to be there to have a better means for society.

No they are not. The constitution is not covering the wide spectrum of rights you have in the USA and not only that, but from where Im sitting on the other side of the Atlantic, the constitution gets bypassed whenever someone in power pushes hard enough.


You have the student handbook which gives you all the rights and duties as a student. If your school doesn't have this, has not given it to you, and has not taken time out of class to go over it with you on the first week of school, then I also have pity for your school system. The constitution lays out our basic fundamental rights, which does indeed have an impact on society. If someone fights for a rule and those that judge it deem it constitutional, then the bill is passed.

And how is it meaningful? You mean so they can dress clean so as not to upset anyone else?!?


We all have rights. If someone is wishing to do something that is damaging the rights of others, in this case decency, then it is infringing upon their rights and the student can be reprimanded for it.

And the guy in the article didnt say smart people dont come out of schools. He said smart people can come without schools AS WELL.


Intelligence isn't made from schools, knowledge is. I don't care how smart you are; if you aren't in a school, you don't know anything and cannot function in a modern society.
AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
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Blacksmith

Then you must have more school days to meet the needs of the state.


What needs! The state does not have needs. This is a law made up by people that does nothing to keep you safe.

You have the student handbook which gives you all the rights and duties as a student. If your school doesn't have this, has not given it to you, and has not taken time out of class to go over it with you on the first week of school, then I also have pity for your school system. The constitution lays out our basic fundamental rights, which does indeed have an impact on society. If someone fights for a rule and those that judge it deem it constitutional, then the bill is passed.


You and I both know that the world does not hand out a students handbook detailing what to say if your arrested, the benefits you can claim (like working tax credits, for working people in the UK who are paid crap amounts and are overworked) and what to do if an insurance company refused to pay up. Also we both know very well that the judge deeming something "constitutional" can be swayed by money or threats and that makes the whole thing a mockery.

We all have rights. If someone is wishing to do something that is damaging the rights of others, in this case decency, then it is infringing upon their rights and the student can be reprimanded for it.


Dressing properly or with your trousers down low is not infringing anyones rights.

I don't care how smart you are; if you aren't in a school, you don't know anything and cannot function in a modern society.


Not true. The opposite of true. False. completely and utterly false.

And who's society are you talking about? USA. As far as I can see the USA is not the pinnacle of "modern" society.
AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
1,573 posts
Blacksmith

Sorry for the double post but am now going to watch Dr.Strangelove and laugh at the irony of this.

Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
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Jester

You and I both know that the world does not hand out a students handbook detailing what to say if your arrested, the benefits you can claim (like working tax credits, for working people in the UK who are paid crap amounts and are overworked) and what to do if an insurance company refused to pay up.


Mine did. It also tells us what we can do to the school if we feel oppressed, where to appeal, how to appeal, and states in fine print our basic student rights. We also have planned parenthood hotlines written.

Also we both know very well that the judge deeming something "constitutional" can be swayed by money or threats and that makes the whole thing a mockery.


True. They can be lobbied and threatened.

Dressing properly or with your trousers down low is not infringing anyones rights.


It's indecent and otherwise obscene; this is the local laws built in our community. No one wants to see a whale tail or your buttcrack, or, gods forbid, your penis.

Not true. The opposite of true. False. completely and utterly false.


So a person who wants to be a doctor but never went to school can have just as much qualification as others to be a doctor. Okay I'll believe that. Also an engineer, teacher, and even a frycook. Nope. They don't need an education to have these job and to function in a society.
Cinna
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Cinna
753 posts
Nomad

Normal people would usually be thoroughly disgusted and would do something about such threats and bribes, hopefully making the judge, if not the briber/threatener incredible.


I'm sure that many politicians currently "corrupt" were completely normal people once.
wolf1991
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wolf1991
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Farmer

Mine did. It also tells us what we can do to the school if we feel oppressed, where to appeal, how to appeal, and states in fine print our basic student rights. We also have planned parenthood hotlines written.


And this school is real? It isn't Narnia U is it? I've never heard of a school that encourages a student to think for themself.
locoace3
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locoace3
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Nomad

Mine did. It also tells us what we can do to the school if we feel oppressed, where to appeal, how to appeal, and states in fine print our basic student rights. We also have planned parenthood hotlines written.


can i go there? oh wait i don't have closet to narnia DARN and i wanted to meet mr. tumnis the rest is wht wolf said
samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

The main problem with education (at least American education) is that it caters to the less intelligent while the average and gifted students get whatever is left over. I mean seriously? I hate to be the one to say this but students that are more intelligent are more likely to contribute positively to society than their less intelligent peers, it's just reality. I watch as millions of dollars go towards funding vocational school to help those who aren't of the caliber to go to college while my education suffers at the hands of awful teachers, uninteresting classes, and a lack of personal choice.

Why exactly should I be forced to take an advanced level math class when I know I will never pursue a career based in mathematics? Instead shouldn't I have the option of taking a math history class that examines how math has evolved with society and what effects it has while still learning more practical math uses; i.e. statistics. It's not that I'm bad at math it's that I don't find it all that interesting while I would find a social examination of math to be interesting. What we need is to consolidate funds from many areas and use them to fund schools that will give more options to students; vocational, liberal arts, science and math, and a traditional school.

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