How about I back it up with personal experiences !? I went to church (lutheran & catholic) and I realized that I totally disagree with there ideas (anybody who isnt one is going to a "really bad place for a while " I also could never get direct answers and found that it was loosely held together (some including the preacher believed in reincarnation ect... ) and the people there belived in the same stuff I did and yet when I saw them at school they hit and/or ignored me ALL of them
That is fine, I was just wondering if you have any reasons for diagreeing with the ideas of that church you went to. If it was Catholic, I probably shouldn't get too involved because I greatly disagree with many of their beliefs; however, I was curious as to why you disagreed with their teaching. Did you find Bible verses to contradict themselves? Do you find evolution a more suitable belief? Something along those lines.
I came late to the discussion, so this is my 2 cents on the original question. (methodist, lutheran, and baptist background, btw)
No, you don't have to be baptized to be saved. You are saved by your faith, and baptism is an outward symbol of an inward change.
On the cross, one of the robbers next to Christ asked Him to remember him when he got to His kingdom, and Jesus said "today you will be with me in paradise." So, Christ Himself told the thief that he would go to heaven without having been baptized.
Also, a reply to some other statements I saw earlier, there are sprinkles and dunks, and the bible never says exactly how to baptize (thought a large body of water was usually involved). It's a symbol - you're just making your beliefs public. Confirmation does that too. I don't think it's a salvation issue - that comes from your heart.
Well dawn to answer your question about the robbers i will post one of my earlier posts in this discussion
There are three ways to be baptized
By water - water symbolizes life, it is not just about pouring water on a screaming baby, it is to symbolize that he is officially alive in the church and in the body of christ
By blood - meaning martyrdom for your faith, you automatically go to haven if you are a martyr for the catholic faith, and are also baptized at the same time
By desire - If you truly desire to be with God and to be baptized, and you are not able to get baptized by water, then you can be baptized, this was the case that dawn5555 was talking about with the robbers
In the bible I don't remeber hearing that the robber was not baptized. It may be that he was. Baptism is a symbol anyway it symbolizes that your sins have been washed clean. Also John the baptist was said to have dunked peoples head in to the water.
i think people should be baptized but they dont have to be if there is no possible way like your stranded on an island and you find a Bible and you devote your life to God you go to heaven but my friend thinks you have to be even if there is no possible way to be baptized.
Strategy guy think about what you just said. You said that the robber might have been baptized, but think about this: the robber was on a cross. To be more specific he was nailed to the cross. This was the Roman custom of crucifixion. I really doubt that if he just said "Hey guards I want to be baptized, please let me down," he would be let down. On another note I believe in baptism by submersion (i.e. dipping the whole body under the water). I believe this because this is the way that Jesus was baptized.
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Like I said, I came in late and didn't read every single post before I posted. So I assumed we were talking about water baptism. There's also baptism by fire and the Holy Spirit. The robber wouldn't have been baptized by the Holy Spirit because He didn't really come on the scene until after Christ ascended.(Pentecost in the book of Acts) But since he was right there with Christ, perhaps that could be considered some sort of spirit baptism. How technical were you wanting to get? I'm not any kind of bible scholar, but I had this discussion a long time ago with a friend of mine.
To Sithman: I don't think you got what I was trying to say. Everyone was saying that the robber hadn't been baptised to bac up their fact that you don't have to be baptised. I was saying that we have no idea if the robber was baptised. I now what a roman cruxifiction is and I know that they wouldn't of taken him down. They wouldn't take him down for anything, except maybe money.
Well, the robber on the cross is just an example. You also won't find in the bible that baptism is a saving act. Faith is. Yes, God commands us to be baptized, but he also commands us to honor Him and our parents and love our neighbors, not commit adultery, etc. None of those are acts of salvation though. And nowhere does it say "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him and gets baptized shall not perish but have eternal life." Or anything quite like that.
I'm not saying that baptism is the way to be saved I was just pointing out the fact that we have no idea if the robber was baptized since some people we using it in the dissucion as a proving point. Actually I think I'm actually helping the point of not having to be baptized.
