I have followed this debate with some interest. Its difficult to cover everything in one post because of the many issues and points raised, but I will try.
A great deal of the posts made suggest that many in the USA totally fail to understand just how different their society is to the majority around the world. Despite it being spelled out for you, many cant seem to accept that in the UK, and in many other societies, THERE ARE FEW OR NO GUNS. Full stop. Thats it, defence or crime considerations are not an issue, we dont have a gun culture, no one thinks about them or worries about them.
It is also clear that many posters struggle to form their own opinion, much less present it here in a sensible debate.
Xzeno and some others for instance, seems to consentrate on simply critiquing the WAY someone tries to illustrate a point or opinion, rather than dealing with the matter at hand or the premis of the OP. This is counter productive and gets no one anywhere... do you even have an opinion? Are you capable of formulating a reasoned argument free from prejudice? It does not seem like you are.
Let me return to the issue of society or another way to say it, culture. The USA has a culture of guns, they are an accepted part of life. That much is fact.
In a debate like this simple statistics are important, because per the OP we are starting a new society, there is no consideration needed of poverty/crime/gangs/race/social status etc. All we need to know is the way in which guns interact with ANY society as a constant, i.e in general what results from having guns as part of the culture, and therefore should we or should we not allow this new society to have guns?
Answer... as has statistically been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, it is a simple fact that in a society with guns there will be a higher percentage per captia of deaths resulting from guns. Really that is all that needs said on this point. It is fairly simple therefore to say in an new ideal society, guns would NOT form part of the cultre, and would NOT be available to anyone. Why on earth would they, there would simply be NO NEED or DESIRE.
AnalogMunkys drink driving analogy works well for this. Consider for a moment, if everyone was allowed to drink and drive because it was their right to do so. Sure most would be mature and sensible enough not to do it... why? Because drinking and driving increase the risk of causing death to yourself and others by crashing etc. Fact. BUT, there would without a shadow of a doubt be more deaths percentage wise caused by drink driving, than in a society in which drink driving was prohibited. This is common sense, this is why drink driving is illegal.
So it follows that in a society in which guns are prohibited, where they are not freely available to everyone, the risk of death by gun is less, particularly if guns have never formed part of that societies culture and are therefore not even seen as part of any equation. This is a simple fact, its not rocket science.
So that much we can leave to rest.
Now, the other main point here which is in actual fact an entirely different issue, is the cultural more realistic aspect to this argument about guns. It encompasses crime, poverty and any number of other social issues which result in violent crime for a variety of reasons. These are deep social issues that are not being discussed here, what is being discussed is how guns relate to them.
As has been illustrated well within this debate, the USA has a culture that accepts guns as part of life. Fair enough. But the problem is that the USA also has without a shadow of a doubt one of the highest homocide rates in the world percentage wise per capita. That is, more people comit murder, for whatever reason be it crime or gang related etc etc. This is not up for debate, it is a fact.
What I think it is important to understand is this idea: In reality within a society there will be arguments, there will be conflict, there will be crime. As I mentioned there are a myriade of social issues which cause this and different cultures have different problems... but arguments and conflict are a constant to a greater or lesser degree.
But here it is... if the society has no gun culture, then all of these realities of life make no difference to the issue, because death by gun is less likely. There are NO guns, on any side, civilian, criminal, police. No one has guns, no one uses guns no one thinks about them, no one worries about them. This is the general situation in the UK. Police do not NEED guns, because robbers and criminals do not HAVE guns or even particularly seek them. Its a very simple concept but I know you American folks may have a hard time understanding this, however it is true. Think outside the box. Yours is NOT the only way things can or do work around the world. I dont NEED a gun for protection because I KNOW no one else has one. Any crime or argument or conflict type situation I may get caught up in is extremely unlikely to result in my being shot, and therefore less likely to result in me or anyone else being murdered.
Again as AnalogMunky said, you can run from a knife or you can physically fight back... guns change the whole situation.
There is a curve ball to throw into this issue though, which drives right at the heart of the USAs problem. Why is it that countries like say, Sweden, or CANADA, have similar levels of gun ownership precentage wise and similar availability, but dont go round using them in arguments, conflicts, crime??????? That is the crux of what the USA needs to deal with in its society. Its a complex issue and you can try to hide behind the whole "rights and freedoms" argument. But it doesnt stack up. Because its not working. In the USA there are more violent crimes, because guns are available these result in a higher percentage of deaths... murder... gun crime.
Its not a black and white issue, but unless you have a closed mind or cannot fully accept how different things are elsewhere, then I dont think our Amercian chums are going to GET why gun ownership does NOT result in more protection, does NOT result in less death, does NOT result in less crime... all the statistics, which ever way you bend them or interpret them tend to confirm this.
Guns r baaad m'kaaay.
