He can create a stone that he cannot lift and yet lift it. This is no paradox, this is the definition of being omnipotent.
How can he lift it if he can't lift it? That makes no sense.
Oh, and Asherlee, it says on the website that God can do the illogical, but if he created the logic and its antonym, then why can he defy his own creation by doing the illogical?
It isn't that a higher being couldn't do something illogical. Illogical, really just means contradicting. It's kind of a non-issue. Hard for me to explain. Moegreche could explain easily. But a lot of illogicalness has to do with ideas and semantics. Let me give you an example.
God could not square a circle. It isn't that it's beyond his means of doing something, or that he is limited, it's just contradictory. It doesn't make sense. How can you square a circle? By the very definition of each word, it's impossible.
God could not square a circle. It isn't that it's beyond his means of doing something, or that he is limited, it's just contradictory. It doesn't make sense. How can you square a circle? By the very definition of each word, it's impossible.
So, it forms a paradox. Therefore, there is no solution. It is a paradox. Ah, this thread can now be closed. Just wanted to spark up some interesting discussion.
There is still some discussing that can be done here. Especially if we just talk about the characteristics of a higher being. I find it really interesting.
The rock too heavy for him to lift argument is solved either under Descartes' or Aquinas' definition of omnipotence. Under Descartes, God is so omnipotent that he can both create that object and lift it and it would be no problem, because he is God and is above logic. Under Aquinas' definition, since God can do all that is possible and nothing that is logically impossible, an object that God cannot lift is fallacious at its core and cannot exist - because God can lift anything that can exist. Therefore, the question itself is pointless to ask. The free will argument is a better one - I don't know about any possible refutations to it . . . the rock argument doesn't work though.
God could not square a circle. It isn't that it's beyond his means of doing something, or that he is limited, it's just contradictory. It doesn't make sense. How can you square a circle? By the very definition of each word, it's impossible.
Because pi is a transcendental number, it is impossible for a person to square a circle or any possible machine. But what about God?
So, it forms a paradox. Therefore, there is no solution. It is a paradox. Ah, this thread can now be closed. Just wanted to spark up some interesting discussion.
No, not a paradox - a reductio ad absurdum.
It isn't that a higher being couldn't do something illogical. Illogical, really just means contradicting. It's kind of a non-issue. Hard for me to explain.
The basis that a higher being couldn't do something illogical stems from the law of non-contradiction. This is the idea that something cannot be true and not true at the same time.
The ideas of logic, etc. are only "set in stone" if there is determinism. If there is a God, the laws of logic are not necessarily set in stone; for God to truly be part of the system, He must also interact with the system, and, in doing so, he would defy logic. Thus God or logic cannot be unmovable.
he did make a square circle... its called a squirrel
i find humor necessary at times.... it lightens the mood.
if there is no such thing as time.. and there's only the here and now.. and has only ever been the here and now then the future would possibly maybe fall under the same fallaciousness that the square circle would...
what do you mean by squaring a circle exactly?
if you go by the parameter that a circle is just a geometric 2 dimensional figure that has no corners then couldn't you just round the corners of a square? i mean that doesn't even take a God...
or stretch a circle so that it meets the same end?
lets examine the parameters of such an unmovable object... if it were to exist in this universe w/ our universe's rules...
if it were to exist then the only possibilities for its existence that i see would have it consuming the entirety of the universe... just one solid infinite entity... by fact of it consuming the entire universe it couldn't be moved... b/c it would already be everywhere it could be moved (and then you would have God outside of this plane of existence bench pressing this plane of existence and therefore moving this infinite object )
but the problem i see w/ an infinite object is that it would (atleast parts) be so grand that it would cave in on itself and form one or more singularities and at that point the question lies in that does a singularity move in space?... or can it be moved in space?... and can a God move a singularity? ... if he created everything then i would imagine so.
The ideas of logic, etc. are only "set in stone" if there is determinism. If there is a God, the laws of logic are not necessarily set in stone; for God to truly be part of the system, He must also interact with the system, and, in doing so, he would defy logic. Thus God or logic cannot be unmovable.
No, there's no problem under Thomas Aquinas' definition of omnipotence, which is that God is omnipotent in the sense that he can do all that is logically possible - logic and God are not compromised, it's just that God can do all that is logically possible.
No, there's no problem under Thomas Aquinas' definition of omnipotence, which is that God is omnipotent in the sense that he can do all that is logically possible - logic and God are not compromised, it's just that God can do all that is logically possible.
If God can do all that is logically possible, then, well, let me build up an argument:
Imagine the world as the composition of all the atoms that make up the world and the various forces attached. As you can see, by reducing the world to this, all things can be predicted mathematically. Thus, if this is true, then for God to exist and interact with the system, he MUST defy logic.
isn't it impossible to know both the speed and placement of an electron in space at the same time? ...maybe just by our limits... maybe only he has the capacitance to truly know and predict such things... b/c maybe only he can know both at the same time (O__o)
chemistry class as source for all those that will demand one
maybe it defies logic for us to know such a thing and that's why we don't... its a law somewhere or a rule that says that.
