Alright, first off, all the "there is no god" and "every atheist is going to hell" threads that come up every few days: They don't convince anyone of anything, they just get people mad
To the atheists: the basis of society is religion, that never changed and never will. Get over it making religion smaller isn't going to make anything "better" even if it isn't true
To religious zealots: flaming doesn't spread religion, it just spreads hate, I know most religious texts tell you to spread religion, but to reuse an overused phrase You're doing it wrong
So let me just finish this by saying to let people be wrong
So let me just finish this by saying to let people be wrong
So true, and yet, all the atheists on here are apparently atheists so that they can know the truth, and they want everyone else to know it as well. The same thing applies to the religious zealots, (of that number you cannnot count me, because I take an anti-atheist stance only because it amuses me) they want the whole world to know the truth that has been divinly showed to them in a prophecy or a tome from thousands of years ago. They are both wrong, or course, but it is nice to see everyone try so hard! So, really, the quote above should only apply to people like me, who think that everyone is wrong, and that the whole truth is only going to be apparent sometime in the next 16 trillion years, and not a second sooner. I let people be wrong every day.
Oh dear, you haven't been around the WEPR much have you? It sounds like you have a low regard for what is produced out of such threads. It sparks discussion.
all the "there is no god" and "every atheist is going to hell" threads that come up every few days: They don't convince anyone of anything, they just get people mad
Such threads that have no basis or supporting arguments don't convince anyone of anything. However, those that step up to the challenge and provide substance for their theses produce discussion.
the basis of society is religion
There are 3 ways that a society can form. One society can amass from a tribe or fusion of tribes that unite under one concept. Two is the religious side where a congregation sets up a society under the rule of their deity. How it goes from there is really up to the people and what their ideologies are. Three is where one side conquers another side and proclaims themselves the rulers of the society.
Religion may have been the basis of some societies, but that doesn't mean they need to have religion to remain a society.
So let me just finish this by saying to let people be wrong
Let people be wrong? So you want the people do what they do without correction, clarification, or controversy? Do you want us to step back a couple ten thousand years again?
So let me re-iterate that this is the WEPR. Any and all discussion is welcomed, so long as it sparks discussion and there is a healthy debate going. Sure, there are some of the bad discussions that get nowhere, but for the most part, we debate, discuss, enlighten, and most of all, learn.
Let people be wrong? So you want the people do what they do without correction, clarification, or controversy? Do you want us to step back a couple ten thousand years again?
no. what I am saying is this: if people don't want to believe you, don't try to force them to
So let me re-iterate that this is the WEPR. Any and all discussion is welcomed, so long as it sparks discussion and there is a healthy debate going. Sure, there are some of the bad discussions that get nowhere, but for the most part, we debate, discuss, enlighten, and most of all, learn.
First off, I'm going to say just this, you are right, and what I'm trying to stop the bad "discussions", that spread hate instead of knowledge and ideas. if, somehow, there happens a thread that takes this particular subject seriously and leads to honest and thoughtful discussion instead of a flame war it'd make my day.
[quote]Frank wrote: So let me re-iterate that this is the WEPR. Any and all discussion is welcomed, so long as it sparks discussion and there is a healthy debate going. Sure, there are some of the bad discussions that get nowhere, but for the most part, we debate, discuss, enlighten, and most of all, learn.
First off, I'm going to say just this, you are right, and what I'm trying to stop the bad "discussions", that spread hate instead of knowledge and ideas. if, somehow, there happens a thread that takes this particular subject seriously and leads to honest and thoughtful discussion instead of a flame war it'd make my day.[/quote]
Frank wrote exactly what I was going to say to you. But, I'll build off your response. That is why we have moderators. We try to carefully monitor ALL topics that role through here. Rarely do things get out of control for long. I hate to pull the "newbie" card, but you're relatively new and rather inactive. Actually read through some of the larger topics. They have GREAT discussions.
if people don't want to believe you, don't try to force them to
This depends on the person though. You can't really converge this to an entire group and expect to be right. I'm an Atheist myself. I don't particularly make someone adopt my beliefs, I just make them UNDERSTAND it. There are plenty of misconceptions about the denominations that the religious seem to think is real. Then there's the part about what the religious do with their religion. Don't get me started with that...
if, somehow, there happens a thread that takes this particular subject seriously and leads to honest and thoughtful discussion instead of a flame war it'd make my day.
This thread's pretty new, but there is plenty of discussion abound. You just gotta lurk and look :P
To the atheists: the basis of society is religion, that never changed and never will. Get over it making religion smaller isn't going to make anything "better" even if it isn't true
That's rather narrow of you - not all societies are formed around religious ideologies (as has already been pointed out). I disagree with you on the point that making religion 'smaller' won't make things better. Basing things upon religion encourages staleness of society, culture and people - for a start you have to follow a restrictive set of rules because 'God says so' (Christianity uses a set of roughly 2000 year old scrolls and books for Christs sake - how can those rules still hold relevance in modern times with our greater knowledge and understanding of the world around us?). Secular societies are generally more democratic, more advanced and culturally developed than those that rely on theism and theocracy.
To the atheists: the basis of society is religion, that never changed and never will. Get over it making religion smaller isn't going to make anything "better" even if it isn't true
That's hardly our goal. We just want the religious to STFU about it.
@freakenstain&asherlee, believe it or not I know that there are real discussions on this, and that some of them get rather large and I like that, but, on this particular subject they're outnumbered by the trolltacular ones
@asherlee, I know what you do and I do thank you for it and by no means am I trying to minimod, but rather make a point on the crazyness (is that even a word?) of threads on this topic. I mean, I know i can never replace the moderators, I'm just trying to make your job easier
Oh and btw people, by "the basis of society" I was trying to refer to Law, not the reason for forming of society
@freakenstain&asherlee, believe it or not I know that there are real discussions on this, and that some of them get rather large and I like that, but, on this particular subject they're outnumbered by the trolltacular ones
So true, and yet, all the atheists on here are apparently atheists so that they can know the truth, and they want everyone else to know it as well.
I am concerned with the truth, yet I offer no alternative explanation (How can I? I have a lack of belief) My position is that every theist I have come across claim to know god exists without providing sufficient evidence, and this is being intellectually dishonest. I do not claim to know that god does not exist, only that we cannot know that it does, thus falsifying theism. If someone comes and tries to explain the validity of claiming religion to be true, then expect it to be put under scrutiny. And everytime I see an argument about what the world would be like without religion, I more often than not find that the spark of the argument comes from a theist claiming religion to be the basis of society, which it isn't necessarily. I wish religion would just become more of a cultural thing and a rough guide to morality perhaps, and not as literal truth that a follower must go around converting people by threatening them with eternal punishment, or trying to change laws because it goes against their religion. I'm sure that most theists here aren't preachers who want to breach other peoples rights, and I have nothing against those people despite a disagreement. But whenever such a person makes a questionable claim and either not back up such claim or back it up with poor evidence and reasoning, I will go ahead and point out the flaws in their argument.
To the atheists: the basis of society is religion, that never changed and never will. Get over it making religion smaller isn't going to make anything "better" even if it isn't true
That's like saying "it's useless spreading the truth, because no one will believe you"
Oh and btw people, by "the basis of society" I was trying to refer to Law, not the reason for forming of society
That is generally where most(well so far as I know) atheists want religion to be downsized. At least in my opinion, I want laws that are for the betterment of society as opposed to a law that is specific to a religion. If individuals want to live by their religions laws, fine by me, just keep it out of the government.
Can you tell the tree "Your arrogance perturbs me greatly. Basking in the sun all day motionless, gorging yourself, then resting all night! Become the shrew and be forced to move to feed and stay alive!"?
Can you tell the bird "Your free will disgusts me. You flaunt your ability to take to the skies and go where you please with many coloured feathers far too often! Become of the grub and be forced to writhe on the ground, always in fear of being trodden upon."?
You have no power over what nature and nurture made your fellow man. Telling them what you believe to be flawed in them results only in cruel laughs and glares cast askance. They will be what they are until they breathe their last breath or take it upon themselves to see a different view.
