It's funny how your almost never born atheist, you become atheist. I personally think the whole religion thing is far fetched. Why cant we just be dead after we die? Why does there HAVE to be an afterlife? Dont get me wrong i respect others decisions, I just don't believe in it, who's with me? I'm going to be some grass fertilizer one day And home to some maggots + worms.
Umm... to keep us out of hell. He says he loves us, doesn't want us to go to hell, then refuses to do what is needed to keep most of us out of there. That makes absolutely no sense, unless you are a sociopathic dictator with bloodlust.
Umm... to keep us out of hell. He says he loves us, doesn't want us to go to hell, then refuses to do what is needed to keep most of us out of there. That makes absolutely no sense, unless you are a sociopathic dictator with bloodlust.
I interpret hell as not really a place, but just a state where our soul is separated from God. That is where you get the "burning feeling". Considering that God is omnipresent, we live with him all of the time, so we do not know how it feels. With this said,it is not like he's sending us to a prison, but just leaving us because we refuse to except his word. For your second statement, he HAS given you life, right? And I suppose you have a decent life, right? He has given you all of these resources to follow his word easily. Yet you refuse to believe it.
Who are you talking to? My life is going great. I could easily achieve my goal of becoming a scientist continuing at this rate. The worst case scenario is that somehow I fail high school, but even then I can work summer for my dad's business, making a decent living, and finding some other job in the winter. I could continue living with my parents until I was able to surpass whatever kept me from passing high school and take the test. Even if I am never capable of passing, I could work at the factory or mill without a diploma. I live in a beautiful aria and have a lot of family hear, even if my parent's were incapable of housing me I could house with my grandparents. If that fails, my cousins could house me. Wow, I just realized I made way more than I want to in this last sentence.... This is why I shouldn't make a post after ten...
I'm talking in a general sense, genius. Besides, life is ambiguous, so what is good today may be horrible tomorrow. A good example is Japan, who never really expected two really big earthquakes in the same day.
I didn't do anything I would consider wrong, only a psychopath like your god considers the things I do wrong. What did I do that was so wrong in your god's eyes? I lust, as most boys my age do. But your god is guilty of that, isn't he? That self- called jealous being? My only other "crime" is not believing an impossible story, do to factors that your god controlled, like my natural skepticism and my parents teaching me science at a young age.
What stories are you talking about, exactly? Also, I seriously doubt that you haven't done anything for self gain and/or treated someone unfairly, or lied. You've probably done more than you think.
You are a default sinner because it can automatically be determined that you WILL perform a sin in your life.
So doing one thing wrong makes a person a sinner huh? What if I do one good deed, does that make me a good person? I not doesn't that mean by your standards evil is more powerful since it only takes a single act to overcome good?
All he ask you to do is live a good life and try not to commit sin.
And not worship any other God because of him being all jealous and vengeful.
He does give us opportunities to be saved. That's what asking for forgiveness is. Just because our life is horrible and is going wrong doesn't mean our afterlife would be the same.
Got to love that upbeat theistic view of life.
I could easily achieve my goal of becoming a scientist continuing at this rate.
Really? Which field of science are you considering getting into? I was considering a few fields myself, but decided I was happier dealing with those fields as more of a hobby.
Telling us what to do and how to do it defeats the purpose entirely.
Mean like how God doesn't command us not to do certain things?
Exactly Mage. If God truly wants to save all of us, and he IS omnipotent, then he can do what he knows need be done to save us. If he doesn't do it then either he is unwilling to save us, or unable.
I am reading a book called "Yes or No: Straight Answers To Tough Questions About Christianity" It's interesting, I'm always looking for arguments both for an against Christianity, especially the arguments against and answers to the really tough questions, so it'd be cool to see what you have to say in refutation to the book. It helps me form my opinion about things.
Basically what the book I am reading says against what you are saying Mrwalker is this:
Basically, evil stems from free will. Why did God give us a free will? Because from a christian perspective he loved humans, and not robots or puppets. But why does God let all of the evil go on in the world? (this is from the book, which is set up in a very casual, dialogue fashion) "I think it's the same reason our parents don't do our homework for us". Essentially the dialogue goes in the direction of: Our parents don't do our homework for us because we wouldn't learn anything, but doing homework is a pain, and our parents could choose to take that pain away from us, but they don't because it is for our own good. So basically the book is establishing that someone who is good and loves you, can still let you suffer. So, apply all of what I just said to God. Finally it goes on to say that a complete answer is unknown. (excerpt from the book again) "I know why he lets people suffer, I just don't know how he figures it all out. He lets people suffer for the same reason he does everything: he loves us." But how is it love when a child dies of cancer or a 8.9 earthquake hits Japan? In short, the books answers "I don't know"
The thing with that, steevo, is that we can have good without evil. To use the analogy of the homework, your parents could put you in a school that doesn't issue homework, but rather does all of the study in the class. You would still be learning, and you wouldn't be going through the 'ain' of homework.
Furthermore, just as your parents won't do your homework for you, they will help you do it. If God wants to help me with my 'homework', then all he needs to do is stop on by, knock on my door, and show me that he's God. We'll have a nice little talk over some coffee, and I'll reevaluate my beliefs, and adjust my life accordingly. I don't need him to do everything for me, just do what he knows would show me he's there, just like a loving parent will comfort their children when they wake up with a nightmare.
Furthermore, just as your parents won't do your homework for you, they will help you do it. If God wants to help me with my 'homework', then all he needs to do is stop on by, knock on my door, and show me that he's God. We'll have a nice little talk over some coffee, and I'll reevaluate my beliefs, and adjust my life accordingly. I don't need him to do everything for me, just do what he knows would show me he's there, just like a loving parent will comfort their children when they wake up with a nightmare.
Mr. Walker, God probably has knocked on your door. You do have a wife, right? And don't you have a child? God has given you love and life, but do you acknowledge it? God has probably also done you little favors as well. You really have to look deeper into your life to understand God's will.
Fair enough, what you say makes some sense. I still have a few questions though.
To use the analogy of the homework, your parents could put you in a school that doesn't issue homework, but rather does all of the study in the class. You would still be learning, and you wouldn't be going through the 'ain' of homework.
I have a hard time seeing the equivalence to reality in the analogy here. How does one live a life completely void of evil, pain or suffering? When is there a situation where someone goes through life completely void of "homework"? Furthermore, what would the real world equivalent be of someone who "does all of the study in class"?
Furthermore, just as your parents won't do your homework for you, they will help you do it. If God wants to help me with my 'homework', then all he needs to do is stop on by, knock on my door, and show me that he's God.
Okay then, continuing on with the homework analogy, before you get help from your parents, don't you have to first make it known that you need help with said homework or for that matter recognize that you need help? In other words, if you don't recognize yourself that you need help from God, or make your want for help from Him known (e.g. go to church, participate in bible studies, etc...) then why would God help you? You cannot help someone who isn't actively seeking it.
Umm... to keep us out of hell. He says he loves us, doesn't want us to go to hell, then refuses to do what is needed to keep most of us out of there. That makes absolutely no sense, unless you are a sociopathic dictator with bloodlust.
He could also just make the place not exist.
I interpret hell as not really a place, but just a state where our soul is separated from God. That is where you get the "burning feeling". Considering that God is omnipresent, we live with him all of the time, so we do not know how it feels.
How could we possibly be separated from something that is omnipresent?
With this said,it is not like he's sending us to a prison, but just leaving us because we refuse to except his word.
This word of God thing sounds like some unspoken fourth part of the trinity or something.
He has given you all of these resources to follow his word easily.
No, no he hasn't. If it was easy to follow his word we wouldn't have around 35,000 different denominations of Christianity.
"Yes or No: Straight Answers To Tough Questions About Christianity"
Already a poor argument. He could have easily given us the ability to choose to do evil and simply have an ingrained desire not to do it. But what is often regarded as a sin is part of human nature, such as the example of lust used by 314d1.
Mr. Walker, God probably has knocked on your door. You do have a wife, right? And don't you have a child? God has given you love and life, but do you acknowledge it? God has probably also done you little favors as well. You really have to look deeper into your life to understand God's will.
What makes you think those were Gods doing? I really can't make to much more of a comment give it's not my life your talking about.
Okay then, continuing on with the homework analogy, before you get help from your parents, don't you have to first make it known that you need help with said homework or for that matter recognize that you need help? In other words, if you don't recognize yourself that you need help from God, or make your want for help from Him known (e.g. go to church, participate in bible studies, etc...) then why would God help you? You cannot help someone who isn't actively seeking it.
What makes you think atheists haven't actively seeked this "help with our homework"?
It's an interpretation of the Voice. Basically. Maybe, when what most people refer to as the voice in the back of your head, tells you that what you're doing is wrong, Christians think of it as God steering them in the right direction.
Moving on.
I'm with Mage on this one. I was a Christian, and I know when I was I went to church, did good things in the name of God, all that jazz. I needed help. I asked God. For a really long time. I became even more active in the church, trying to give God a reason to help me. I didn't get help on my "homework".
My problem with God is, much like Moonfairy said, I was VERY active in my Church, very devout, and did everything I did to live by God's word. I helped with the fellowship, led Bible studies, spread the Christian faith everywhere I could. I did everything that a 'good Christian' is supposed to do, according to dogma. And guess where it got me? Nowhere.
Interestingly enough, the further I have moved from religion, and the more emphasis I have placed on education and living my life, not as a Christian, but as an atheist humanist, my happiness, relationships, and overall my life have only continued to get better.
I really have only two possible explanations for this. Either God isn't real, and focusing on my needs and desires has made me happier, or perhaps God does exist but is rewarding me for being ME, not some sheep that a congregation leads about on a leash. I really don't know for certain but the way I'm living my life now makes me and my family happier, so I would think that if there is a loving creator then he'd be pleased that I'm enjoying this life I have.
(Y) You know what that is Walker. ^ Moving from away from religion has had a major downside with the whole family thing, but my life in other areas got a lot better.
I really don't know for certain but the way I'm living my life now makes me and my family happier,
Thing is, you're not necessarily following his rules, I don't believe.
I've always been given a "Follow gods justice and you shall be awarded w/e". Tightly following his rules always seems to be what they seem to follow.
Then again, knowing people, half of them back in the days of the Bible probably misinterpreted the bed-time story OR it may have been true.
I doubt that big time though. MRWalker82, I believe it is much better if you focus on yourself. Relying on a deity to do your work for you shows faith, possibly blindness, and a lack of reliability to other people. That's all I'm saying.
Interestingly enough, the further I have moved from religion, and the more emphasis I have placed on education and living my life, not as a Christian, but as an atheist humanist, my happiness, relationships, and overall my life have only continued to get better.
I can pretty much say the same thing.
Moving from away from religion has had a major downside with the whole family thing, but my life in other areas got a lot better.
For me those who would take issue I never really felt all that close to, to begin with. With maybe the acceptation of my mother, but she died before I completely dropped all theistic ideas. My guess based on her reaction to my aunt who is also an atheist, she would think that I still believe God exists and am just in denial.
I have to wonder what sense does it make that an omnipotent being would care whether I worship or even believe in him or not?
If I was god, 24/7 party time up in heaven, every ones invited!
But man, some Christians really got it in their minds that this god is the real deal. I cant prove it's not but I am pretty sure i believe it's not real.
Maybe you could try to think out of the box for just a second and imagine what it would be like if your god was not real. Or is that a sin or something? idk lol.
I feel kinda bad for the hardcore religious types, seems like you never once get to relax because your sinning somehow.
And another thing, when the religion first started, was it not started by people not all that educated? I re call them burning women on sticks for silly things such as being a "witch".
And Christianity is just the most popular cult anyways. If you look at it from the outside, it is just a cult lol.
