Forums → WEPR → Theism and Atheism
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I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
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The bear thing is stupid, because God made the animals have instincts and the reason a bear mauls you is if it feels threatened or if its hungry and wants to eat you.
It specifically says God sent those bears to do that.
The Egyptian thing was to show the pharaoh that God is more powerful than he is and that his Gods were false.
How was this at all just? He was trying to get the Pharaoh to release Mose and his people with those stunts. However he started things off by hardening the Pharaohs heart so he wouldn't be responsive to begin with. (so much for free will)
The Adam and Eve incident happened because he knew that they would sin
So he made humans knowing we would eventually sin then punished us for it? Your God is an idiot.
And exactly how do you have a person still a virgin have a baby? Artificial insemination wasn't exactly all the rage 2000 years ago.
You could say that what we can do today, a god could do already back then. Also, being virgin is only about having had no sexual intercourse. Finally, I'm sure what Blkasp wanted to say was "- not a person who hasn't given birth to a baby."
[/quote]So he made humans knowing we would eventually sin then punished us for it? [quote]
Just to back this up - yes, he knew they'd sin (I don't agree with the last part though ;o)
1 Peter 20: "He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you."
(Reference to how God knew Sin would be introduced into the world, so had pre-planned Jesus' purpose)
Acts 15 "Known unto God are all his (mankind) works from the beginning of the world."
From a religious perspective, he knew they would be he did not set them up to fail - the "devil" as such was the corruption.
So he made humans knowing we would eventually sin then punished us for it?
Just to back this up - yes, he knew they'd sin (I don't agree with the last part though ;o)
1 Peter 20: "He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you."
(Reference to how God knew Sin would be introduced into the world, so had pre-planned Jesus' purpose)
Acts 15 "Known unto God are all his (mankind) works from the beginning of the world."
From a religious perspective, he knew they would be he did not set them up to fail - the "devil" as such was the corruption.
- The above post can be deleted, i messed up quotes.
(I don't agree with the last part though ;o)
If God hadn't intended us to sin but knew we would this is on him as the creator, making him an idiot for punishing the creation. If he made us intending that we would eventually sin it makes no sense to punish us, making him an idiot for doing so.
From a religious perspective, he knew they would be he did not set them up to fail - the "devil" as such was the corruption.
Who put or at least allowed the snake in the garden in the first place and made the one thing he didn't want messed with the centerpiece so it would be easily found and accessed?
You could say that what we can do today, a god could do already back then
You could yes.
the "devil" as such was the corruption.
And who made mr.devil? Oh yes, that's right. He must have known that he would go against God, seeing as how that's how God made him anyways. It either boils down to this, God is either so totally inept that he doesn't deserve to be worshiped, or he's a complete *******. That, or he doesn't exist, which clears up a lot of things.
Acts 15 "Known unto God are all his (mankind) works from the beginning of the world."
What does that mean exactly, that he knows everything we have done so far or that he already knows everything that humanity will do and achieve? If the latter applies, doesn't that kinda contradict the notion of free will?
The only thing i could offer is a textbook answer which would be ripped to shreds.
Religion is blind faith. We are told not to question our God, and whilst we do (Me included) it's just supposed to be accepted.
I believe, but i do disagree with a lot i have been told and taught.
So i am in agreeing that it's in-explainable why if God is all-knowing certain things happen.
Religion is blind faith. We are told not to question our God, and whilst we do (Me included) it's just supposed to be accepted.
I believe, but i do disagree with a lot i have been told and taught.
So i am in agreeing that it's in-explainable why if God is all-knowing certain things happen.
If you can clearly see the problem here why do you still follow it?
If you can clearly see the problem here why do you still follow it?
I don't believe every little thing in the Bible, any Christian who does is niave - it's mostly metaphor. I believe in a God. Every "being" has flaws. & i find comfort in my faith. That's all there is too it. I respect people who put their faith in science. I guess we won't know until one is 100% proven.
I believe in a God. Every "being" has flaws. & i find comfort in my faith.
How can you be comfortable with something you know to be seriously flawed?
These emotional pleas I'm seeing lately "i find comfort in my faith" "I'm happy with my beliefs" seems to indicate to me that you don't care what's real or not.
I respect people who put their faith in science.
Science isn't reliant on faith. It's practically the polar opposite of such thinking.
How can you be comfortable with something you know to be seriously flawed?
I'm comfortable with my parents, and i know they're flawed.
These emotional pleas I'm seeing lately "i find comfort in my faith" "I'm happy with my beliefs" seems to indicate to me that you don't care what's real or not
Who am i pleaing to? I'm not. I do care what's real and what's not. My belief is God is real. I'm not fussed on who questions it and who's belief differs from it. My personal belief is all that matters to me, until proven wrong.
Science isn't reliant on faith. It's practically the polar opposite of such thinking.
Not all scientific theories have been proven. They're just that, theories. Although the people who make the theories have faith in them - that is where i was coming from.
I'm comfortable with my parents, and i know they're flawed.
Your parents aren't an idea or belief. It would be like being comfortable with the idea that your parents are wealthy and well off while you see that they are starving in the street.
Who am i pleaing to? I'm not.
Justifying with things like "i find comfort in my faith" is called an emotional plea. Your making a plea to the emotional aspect of your beliefs.
My personal belief is all that matters to me, until proven wrong.
You already know your beliefs are flawed thinking yet you accept them anyway. So your turning a blind eye to the points that show them wrong.
Not all scientific theories have been proven. They're just that, theories. Although the people who make the theories have faith in them - that is where i was coming from.
No scientific theory is proven as it has to remain falsifiable. It also has nothing to do with faith either as it has to be supported by objective evidence and independently verified multiple times.
To answer some of the questions posed here.
What if they use both?
The two ways of thinking are at odds. If your blindly accepting a claim with nothing backing it your not using critical thinking.
The only time such a debate might go anywhere is when the follower of said religion is already doubting his/her religion.
It can plant doubt in the back of their head that may at a later date come out.
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